I’d be happy with another referendum if,,,,,

[Nickgnome]

the tribester said:

And, if after the second referendum, remain win, will there be a third referendum?

Why have a referendum at all if you don't act on the result?

Being blunt we have a representative democracy and there should never be any referenda.

We elect MPs and a government to make those decisions on our behalf.

We can be intimately involved inc selecting those candidates for election if we want or more likely can be bothered.

As a group the electorate are not we’ll informed and very prejudice. Our democracy irons that out.

If we continue with referenda no politicians will ever be able to govern.

[primary colours]

Burwood said:

primary colours said:

Crippo said:

I would not be happy to have another referendum under any circumstance. I would be seriously offended and angry. Most people feel as I do. I can’t make a prediction about what may happen, but I do t think it would be pretty and I do t think it would solve anything. It would only bring more problems.

Is that because you feel you were well informed by the debate, or would you have voted the way you did regardless? I assume you voted leave, so can genuinely understand the offence and anger but I'd question your assertion that 'most' people feel the same way, I think that most people want a result that we can all accept and make the best of, in or out. In fairness it's not pretty at the moment and the poor quality of information presented pre-referendum and the subsequent unraveling of predictions made by both sides may mean that a swathe of voters want to change their minds, maybe it's not a bad thing to reaffirm, or not, the result, given the potential consequences?

You won’t get a result ‘we all’ accept. I’ll informed you say. Most people, I’d wager 90% have not changed their minds despite this knowledge you say has been made clear recently. What consequences? I take no pleasure in leaving although I voted leave, changed my mind some time ago then flipped back to leave due to the E.U. contemptuous attitude. It’s 50/50, always has been. The sky won’t fall

Agreed, lazy wording on my part - there will still be those that oppose the result but we've had the opportunity to assess our position based on recent events, and I maintain we can make a better informed call than previously. No one is falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals (yet?) and neither have the worst predictions of Project Fear come to pass (yet?) If you're right about the 90% then, in my scenario, we'll likely confirm the leave result, hopefully end of story. I guess I see the EU's intransigence as a reason to remain in the club, as I'd rather have that intransigence on my side of any future negotiations. The EU were never going to roll over and make life easy and we lacked the negotiating prowess to get a deal that we could, generally, agree on. To be clear, I don't support a People's Vote - it's undemocratic in my opinion, but I would support an initial vote on should we have a second referendum, in no small part because it should force to HOC to stop faffing around and implement the decision.

[Crippo]

primary colours said:

Crippo said:

I would not be happy to have another referendum under any circumstance. I would be seriously offended and angry. Most people feel as I do. I can’t make a prediction about what may happen, but I do t think it would be pretty and I do t think it would solve anything. It would only bring more problems.

Is that because you feel you were well informed by the debate, or would you have voted the way you did regardless? I assume you voted leave, so can genuinely understand the offence and anger but I'd question your assertion that 'most' people feel the same way, I think that most people want a result that we can all accept and make the best of, in or out. In fairness it's not pretty at the moment and the poor quality of information presented pre-referendum and the subsequent unraveling of predictions made by both sides may mean that a swathe of voters want to change their minds, maybe it's not a bad thing to reaffirm, or not, the result, given the potential consequences?

Yes I did vote leave. One of the many reasons for my vote was to have directly elected representatives that I felt I could hold to account and sack. So to have my chance at full democracy being restored being thwarted by said partial democracy stinks. I do believe that the result is binary I do t believe we can be half in and half out and neither does the EU with respect to them. The losing side in the referendum was and still is expected to be disappointed, again I do t expect the dissatisfaction to be on the leaving side. I also feel the only way to unite the Country is by the process of time after we have left we shall muddle through, life will go on , something’s will improve something’s wont, that’s life but leaving will he done and people will forget and focus’s on other things.
The one thing that matters to the population is at the very least an illusion of democracy. Without it we have even less invested in society than we thought we had and you will find that life gets very much worse for us all

[Burwood]

primary colours said:

Burwood said:

primary colours said:

Crippo said:

I would not be happy to have another referendum under any circumstance. I would be seriously offended and angry. Most people feel as I do. I can’t make a prediction about what may happen, but I do t think it would be pretty and I do t think it would solve anything. It would only bring more problems.

Is that because you feel you were well informed by the debate, or would you have voted the way you did regardless? I assume you voted leave, so can genuinely understand the offence and anger but I'd question your assertion that 'most' people feel the same way, I think that most people want a result that we can all accept and make the best of, in or out. In fairness it's not pretty at the moment and the poor quality of information presented pre-referendum and the subsequent unraveling of predictions made by both sides may mean that a swathe of voters want to change their minds, maybe it's not a bad thing to reaffirm, or not, the result, given the potential consequences?

You won’t get a result ‘we all’ accept. I’ll informed you say. Most people, I’d wager 90% have not changed their minds despite this knowledge you say has been made clear recently. What consequences? I take no pleasure in leaving although I voted leave, changed my mind some time ago then flipped back to leave due to the E.U. contemptuous attitude. It’s 50/50, always has been. The sky won’t fall

Agreed, lazy wording on my part - there will still be those that oppose the result but we've had the opportunity to assess our position based on recent events, and I maintain we can make a better informed call than previously. No one is falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals (yet?) and neither have the worst predictions of Project Fear come to pass (yet?) If you're right about the 90% then, in my scenario, we'll likely confirm the leave result, hopefully end of story. I guess I see the EU's intransigence as a reason to remain in the club, as I'd rather have that intransigence on my side of any future negotiations. The EU were never going to roll over and make life easy and we lacked the negotiating prowess to get a deal that we could, generally, agree on. To be clear, I don't support a People's Vote - it's undemocratic in my opinion, but I would support an initial vote on should we have a second referendum, in no small part because it should force to HOC to stop faffing around and implement the decision.

It’s not up to the HOC whether we vote again. It’s clear that the hanging by a thread majority (Mays fault) is being used to thwart the result. The polls show the `Tory’s on 32%. Even if off a bit they’re way ahead. And neither do you re-run elections at every twist.

[otolith]

... everyone gets their vote tattooed on their forehead. If we remain, nobody who voted remain is ever allowed to whinge about the EU, and if we leave and it all goes to hell nobody who voted for it is allowed to complain. Both sanctions on pain of being punched in the face.

[Cantaloupe]

Nickgnome said:

Being blunt we have a representative democracy and there should never be any referenda.

We elect MPs and a government to make those decisions on our behalf.

We can be intimately involved inc selecting those candidates for election if we want or more likely can be bothered.

As a group the electorate are not we’ll informed and very prejudice. Our democracy irons that out.

If we continue with referenda no politicians will ever be able to govern.

We have to have some decisions by plebiscite, how would Scots decide whether or not to leave the union ?

The SNP won 56 of the 59 seats in Scotland in 2015 yet they never took this as a mandate
for declaring Independence [ they might live to regret that ] as a responsible party they are happy to
wait for another crack at a referendum.

[alfaspecial]

What was the process before the last referendum?


The UK electorate became more vocal in it's Euroscepticism.
They expressed this electorally in the 2014 EU elections when UKIP- a single issue party- won most seats. (27% of seats)
The fear of the Conservatives losing HoC seats to UKIP forced Cameron to offer a EU referendum as part of the 2015 GE Manifesto (though he thought the LD/Con coalition would give him an excuse not to hold said referendum.....)
Winning the 2015 GE outright forced him to make good his promise.
Despite Remain outspending the Leave campaign, a £9m leaflet, project fear, interventions by foreign leaders etc LEAVE won
The fact that the single issue Brexit Party actually won more votes than UKIP in 2014 (up from 27% to 31%) indicates the electorate are even more Eurosceptic.
I believe that the referendum result should be implemented.


I am quite happy with no-deal, better IMHO than the BRINO 'negotiated' by May, Hammond & Co - remembering, of course, that at the time of the referendum a no-deal Brexit was the only Brexit on offer (because the EU's own rules wouldn't allow any trade deals to be negotiated until after we had left (source https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referend... )


If anyone wants another referendum then they have every right to campaign for one but ONLY after we have actually left the EU.

So, if YOU want a referendum this is the procedure.
Get a political party to campaign in the next GE with a "Hold a Referendum to (re)join the EU" as a Manifesto commitment
Fight & win GE
Fight & win Referendum



The debate wont be about REMAIN or LEAVE - a new question will be asked
"The UK is not in the European Union - do you wish to re-join. YES or NO"



The argument that we have a Parliamentary democracy and that better qualified 'experts' should make the CONSTITUTIONAL decision as to who runs our country (MPs elected by and responsible to the UK electorate or 'faceless' EU officials who we, the UK electorate have no power to select) is erroneous: MPs couldn't decide so they referred the matter back to us.

For the record, although around 85% of MPs are 'Remain' supporters, in fact 70% of Conservative constituencies and 65% of Labour constituencies voted LEAVE
source https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...

And 83% of all MPs in the current HoC won their seats under a manifesto commitment to implement the referendum result.

[NoNeed]

Nickgnome said:

IQ and EQ test. Not sure what score but has to be over 100

Include anyone over 12. It is their future after all. Subject to 1.

What’s not to like?

If you don't want to vote just don't go, making up rules to suit yours3lf isn't necessary

[NoNeed]

If you are French.


massive growing unease in France about the EU it is time they had a vote.

[anonymous-user]

Cracking post, Alfaspecial.

There has been consistency in the shift in our general view of the E. U. The referendum wasn't just a flash in the pan. To get the result we did with the campaign of doom from the remain side really speaks volumes. Fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of the bad things threatened by the remain campaign were massive reasons to vote to remain, take no risks and maintain the status quo.

[John145]

NoNeed said:

Nickgnome said:

IQ and EQ test. Not sure what score but has to be over 100

Include anyone over 12. It is their future after all. Subject to 1.

What’s not to like?

If you don't want to vote just don't go, making up rules to suit yours3lf isn't necessary

I’m more amused at the idea that he’s implying remainers are more intelligent!

[powerstroke]

NoNeed said:

If you are French.


massive growing unease in France about the EU it is time they had a vote.

Isn't Macron is on record as saying he wouldn't give the French a vote as he believed the answer would be similar to the UK's
I think it would be better if the EU decided what it was about ? continue building an empire or enabling the peoples of Europe to trade
and cooperate !!! hopefully they will see the UK leaving as a warning although I doubt it ...

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 16th August 08:13

[Vaud]

primary colours said:

Except this is a second referendum, something that a lot of people have serious concerns about (myself included and I voted to remain). I'd see merit in:

Phase 1

Do you support a second referendum

So a referendum to have a referendum?

[Crackie]

Alex Z said:

What percentage of the population voted to leave?

A higher percentage than voted to remain.

[Crackie]

Nickgnome said:

IQ and EQ test. Not sure what score but has to be over 100

Include anyone over 12. It is their future after all. Subject to 1.

What’s not to like?

Anyone over 12. Presumably you mean years.

Why not 12 months, its their future too Nick.

[PositronicRay]

Vaud said:

primary colours said:

Except this is a second referendum, something that a lot of people have serious concerns about (myself included and I voted to remain). I'd see merit in:

Phase 1

Do you support a second referendum

So a referendum to have a referendum?

Did I dream it, or is there an Icelandic political movement proposing ruling by referenda?

[Vaud]

PositronicRay said:

Did I dream it, or is there an Icelandic political movement proposing ruling by referenda?

I don't know.

However, the Swiss manage with many referendums every year.

[PositronicRay]

Vaud said:

PositronicRay said:

Did I dream it, or is there an Icelandic political movement proposing ruling by referenda?

I don't know.

However, the Swiss manage with many referendums every year.

How do they decide what goes to referendum?

[Dromedary66]

tight fart said:

Only those that want to stay vote and they have to get more than 52% of the population.

Night night.

Whilst I appreciate your post is probably a joke.

That is indeed the problem with the remainers. They are a bunch of chinless Stalinists who only accept an outcome that suits them.

[Elysium]

PositronicRay said:

Vaud said:

PositronicRay said:

Did I dream it, or is there an Icelandic political movement proposing ruling by referenda?

I don't know.

However, the Swiss manage with many referendums every year.

How do they decide what goes to referendum?

They have a referendum on it.