Police Officer killed on duty
Discussion
citizensm1th said:
That is not what i am talking about, but for support on targeted raids they would be ideal to help keep the peace while the overworked police went about searching and arresting the crims on these sites.
Or create a quasi-miltary force like the Gendarmerie mobile in France, or the CRS... citizensm1th said:
That is not what i am talking about, but for support on targeted raids they would be ideal to help keep the peace while the overworked police went about searching and arresting the crims on these sites.
That's not a bad idea, but it'd never work long term. The Army has been subject to manning cuts of its own. When we enter our next conflict, that pool of manning is going to be busy elsewhere. My unit used to do a 6 monthly roulement throughout our various commitments. We'd spend 6 months committed to 'enduring' operations (Afghanistan), 6 months on training for contingent operations, (courses, opportunity for leave etc), 6 months actually on contingent operations, and then a further 6 months worth of training to get ready to go back to Afghan. To incorporate a 6 monthly attachment to the Police into the roulement would have been possible, but probably not the right thing for anyone.
Edited by Pleb on Sunday 18th August 20:18
Vaud said:
citizensm1th said:
That is not what i am talking about, but for support on targeted raids they would be ideal to help keep the peace while the overworked police went about searching and arresting the crims on these sites.
Or create a quasi-miltary force like the Gendarmerie mobile in France, or the CRS... Pleb said:
MC Bodge said:
Belfast in The Troubles springs to mind....
Indeed, but that was Armed patrols to provide a visual deterrent. How would Armed patrols down Reading high street for example, deter burglars in the dead of night? Or would you just have pairs of soldiers carrying out the function of Police officers?
Apologies if this comes across as argumentative, I'm just curious as to how it would be done, given the mindset of most of the squaddies I know.
Ps. The initial deployment was a response to the major unrest in 1969.
citizensm1th said:
I think something like that is long over due in the Uk but then again so is a wholesale modernisation of the police in this country, god knows why we put up with so many independent forces
I was partly tongue in cheek as the "tougher" French forces cause as many issues as they resolve (but they are not messed with)... but I agree that the independent forces model is due for review. Maybe a Royal Commission? MC Bodge said:
Sorry, I didn't suggest The Troubles as a good example of the army being on the streets!
No worries chap 
I wasn't sure if you meant it was an example of how they could be used that's all.
MC Bodge said:
Ps. The initial deployment was a response to the major unrest in 1969.
Indeed. Interestingly, when the London riots went off in 2010 or whenever it was, a trawl went round some units for volunteers to swell the Police numbers. I have to admit, there was a lot of excitement at the prospect of smashing up miscreants.
Edited by Pleb on Sunday 18th August 20:29
Pleb said:
citizensm1th said:
That is not what i am talking about, but for support on targeted raids they would be ideal to help keep the peace while the overworked police went about searching and arresting the crims on these sites.
That's not a bad idea, but it'd never work long term. The Army has been subject to manning cuts of its own. When we enter our next conflict, that pool of manning is going to be busy elsewhere. My unit used to do a 6 monthly roulement throughout our various commitments. We'd spend 6 months committed to 'enduring' operations (Afghanistan), 6 months on training for contingent operations, (courses, opportunity for leave etc), 6 months actually on contingent operations, and then a further 6 months worth of training to get ready to go back to Afghan. To incorporate a 6 monthly attachment to the Police into the roulement would have been possible, but probably not the right thing for anyone.
Edited by Pleb on Sunday 18th August 20:18
after 6 months of that a large part of the problem would have moved on back to ireland or off to the continent.
and it would give boris a head start on his recruitment program for the pold he has been making a lot of noise about recently
citizensm1th said:
I think something like that is long over due in the Uk but then again so is a wholesale modernisation of the police in this country, god knows why we put up with so many independent forces
I went and looked. Soctland did this a while back?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_by_c...
citizensm1th said:
Just how long do you think these mobile thieves would hang around if they were getting raided by the police, the taxman and social services with army support at the slightest hint of wrongdoing.
after 6 months of that a large part of the problem would have moved on back to ireland or off to the continent.
and it would give boris a head start on his recruitment program for the pold he has been making a lot of noise about recently
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it wouldn't work long term once we become embroiled in another conflict. after 6 months of that a large part of the problem would have moved on back to ireland or off to the continent.
and it would give boris a head start on his recruitment program for the pold he has been making a lot of noise about recently
A short, sharp, shock is well overdue for these f
kers. The lack of resources argument rather presumes that clamping down on these people wouldn't improve matters and there would be an ongoing cost. I take the view that it could eliminate the problem within a relatively short space of time so the scarce resources would not be needed in the future. At least try. The current policy isn't even containing the problem.
La Liga said:
Regardless, the source of this is where I was telling SeeFive he couldn't saying 'the majority almost certainly break laws daily' (paraphrasing), and you said that the majority don't pay CT (which would support what SeeFive was saying). I highlighted most people who identify as travellers don't live on sites / in caravans so even if a majority of those on sites didn't, it still wouldn't support SeeFive drawing that conclusion.
Sorry I couldn’t respond in your timeframe LL, I have been at the hospital all day again today with a very sick missus on the lung ward and just got in. I also don’t remember saying anything about community charge, just a range of crimes, including as we seem to agree the Irish solution to trespass as an enabler and everything else from ASB to human trafficking. You really don’t have to look too far to find myriad examples of the MO. There are examples on here of the “give them a crime number” approach that can lead some far from the actual cheeky chappies themselves to believe that all is good as you suggest.Try observing them. Try dealing with them. Get your drive done. Have them remove a mix of valuable aluminium and trash from a site and see what goes first, and what is never taken on the promised missing return trip as agreed. Stand behind them in a shop as they maraud through, one paying for a mars bar and the others leaving with quite a bit of stock unpaid for. Sit in a restaurant and observe them putting their own hair into food trying to refuse to pay, and see what happens when they are challenged. Be in the local pub the week after the landlord has ejected two of them and see what happens when they return mob handed to sort out the landlord (luckily that night most of the boxing club were in). When they build an illegal encampment close to your home, try taking your usual dog walk route which happens to be close to that latest infestation and see what happens. Live in Epsom at Derby time. Live close to Wickham for that infestation. You will find it is far from the few spoiling the image of the many. Just like the average speeding motorist who apparently only speeds once every 6 years if you just look at the convictions, unfortunately the lawlessness that goes with that lifestyle when properly observed is way different to the recorded crime.
And since I am in such a great mood to discuss this (not), present personal experience and do all the googling for you for the news articles reporting it (not) I will just leave it at the fact that you obviously know best, are steeped in convivial interaction with them and what we are doing today is just fine with regard to preventing these little scamps from committing no crime at all. No need to create a properly resourced focus such as we do against other problem areas of society (drugs, serious crime etc) as clearly they are law abiding in the main.
They are treated no different to the rest of us, plod is under resourced for fear of a confrontation to come and arrest me where I live too I am sure should I ever commit a crime.
“Nothing to see here, on your way sir”.... “Thanks officer”.
aeropilot said:
The French Gendarmerie is not quasi-mil as they are indeed part of the French Armed Forces?
The CRS is civilian.
I know. My bad wording. I said quasi-military as in most functions you would not perceive them to be military.The CRS is civilian.
CRS is indeed civilian.
Either way, it would be hard to spot their difference in a deployment. They are very similar...
Laurel Green said:
It's over £100k now.Re; some posters saying the armed forces should be brought in to assist police with travellers - it is not the armed forces' role.
Their role is to protect our borders - defence - and our interests overseas.
They may have helped in the past with domestic security issues but they are not police officers and do not have the training or the powers.
The Chief of the General Staff is on record saying that the army will never be deployed in a policing role on the mainland.
Regarding the French police, I think the police would welcome the same number the French have, which IIRC, is about 100,000 more for a similar population.
All that experience did was reinforce that your assertions about what 'that majority almost certainly do' is wrong.
Preferable to the 'internet hardman' posting.
SeeFive said:
Sorry I couldn’t respond in your timeframe LL, I have been at the hospital all day again today with a very sick missus on the lung ward and just got in. I also don’t remember saying anything about community charge, just a range of crimes, including as we seem to agree the Irish solution to trespass as an enabler and everything else from ASB to human trafficking. You really don’t have to look too far to find myriad examples of the MO. There are examples on here of the “give them a crime number” approach that can lead some far from the actual cheeky chappies themselves to believe that all is good as you suggest.
Try observing them. Try dealing with them. Get your drive done. Have them remove a mix of valuable aluminium and trash from a site and see what goes first, and what is never taken on the promised missing return trip as agreed. Stand behind them in a shop as they maraud through, one paying for a mars bar and the others leaving with quite a bit of stock unpaid for. Sit in a restaurant and observe them putting their own hair into food trying to refuse to pay, and see what happens when they are challenged. Be in the local pub the week after the landlord has ejected two of them and see what happens when they return mob handed to sort out the landlord (luckily that night most of the boxing club were in). When they build an illegal encampment close to your home, try taking your usual dog walk route which happens to be close to that latest infestation and see what happens. Live in Epsom at Derby time. Live close to Wickham for that infestation. You will find it is far from the few spoiling the image of the many. Just like the average speeding motorist who apparently only speeds once every 6 years if you just look at the convictions, unfortunately the lawlessness that goes with that lifestyle when properly observed is way different to the recorded crime.
And since I am in such a great mood to discuss this (not), present personal experience and do all the googling for you for the news articles reporting it (not) I will just leave it at the fact that you obviously know best, are steeped in convivial interaction with them and what we are doing today is just fine with regard to preventing these little scamps from committing no crime at all. No need to create a properly resourced focus such as we do against other problem areas of society (drugs, serious crime etc) as clearly they are law abiding in the main.
They are treated no different to the rest of us, plod is under resourced for fear of a confrontation to come and arrest me where I live too I am sure should I ever commit a crime.
“Nothing to see here, on your way sir”.... “Thanks officer”.
I did deal with them. Try observing them. Try dealing with them. Get your drive done. Have them remove a mix of valuable aluminium and trash from a site and see what goes first, and what is never taken on the promised missing return trip as agreed. Stand behind them in a shop as they maraud through, one paying for a mars bar and the others leaving with quite a bit of stock unpaid for. Sit in a restaurant and observe them putting their own hair into food trying to refuse to pay, and see what happens when they are challenged. Be in the local pub the week after the landlord has ejected two of them and see what happens when they return mob handed to sort out the landlord (luckily that night most of the boxing club were in). When they build an illegal encampment close to your home, try taking your usual dog walk route which happens to be close to that latest infestation and see what happens. Live in Epsom at Derby time. Live close to Wickham for that infestation. You will find it is far from the few spoiling the image of the many. Just like the average speeding motorist who apparently only speeds once every 6 years if you just look at the convictions, unfortunately the lawlessness that goes with that lifestyle when properly observed is way different to the recorded crime.
And since I am in such a great mood to discuss this (not), present personal experience and do all the googling for you for the news articles reporting it (not) I will just leave it at the fact that you obviously know best, are steeped in convivial interaction with them and what we are doing today is just fine with regard to preventing these little scamps from committing no crime at all. No need to create a properly resourced focus such as we do against other problem areas of society (drugs, serious crime etc) as clearly they are law abiding in the main.
They are treated no different to the rest of us, plod is under resourced for fear of a confrontation to come and arrest me where I live too I am sure should I ever commit a crime.
“Nothing to see here, on your way sir”.... “Thanks officer”.
All that experience did was reinforce that your assertions about what 'that majority almost certainly do' is wrong.
Brads67 said:
La Liga said:
Cost him internet shaming.
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