Police Officer killed on duty

[Greendubber]

Gameface said:

Former copper white knighting for travellers.

Weird.

I don't think he's white knighting at all, just pointing out that it's not as easy as some are saying to deal with the issues they cause and the community as a whole.

There are lots of nasty feral scum travellers and those are the ones who attract attention for all the wrong reasons. There are sections of the traveller community that aren't like that though, they fly quietly under most people's radar due to not bringing misery with them.

[Red 4]

Brooking10 said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

Nice to see positive hand in pockets contributions to the tragedy as opposed to the knee-jerk reactions I've just read in the last few pages.

Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.

All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.

Good post

I agree.

"Sufficiently manned" though ?

Staffed, Shirley ?

You need numbers to deal with numbers.

Filling the gaps with soldiers (with all due respect to our armed forces) is unlikely to end well.

I suspect many on here would like to see the caravans flattened by a Challenger 2, preferably with the occupants still inside it, but it's never going to happen.

[Halb]

Taylor James said:

Why are you dismissive of this thread's content as evidence of a significant problem that exists with regard to the travelling community?

OK, straight response, I'm not dismissive. I can recall an incident when I witnessed the bullying tactics of DAYLs firsthand, and it put me on edge, luckily I wasn't the target of their behaviour. However, I weigh that against other encounters, which are just normal everyday encounters, and I also weigh that against the local do-as-they-likeys who are not travellers, just your average local scum who account for 90% of local crime. Police seem not very able to handle the local normal scumbags, I think this is primarily down to resources. So I believe the horror stories, but it's like a Venn diagram, not all travellers are DAYLs, and not all DAYLs are travellers. I ignore the 'bomb them' ridiculous posts, but I am wary of moves towards a more totalitarian state, we have the laws that we need already, BoJO says, so what it seems like we need is money, and so I have just looked to see of BoJO will pump money into the police, that is something that I would vote for.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-joh...

I'd like to know what sort of a increase in spending, La Liga and others would think is a start, obvs it could be a black hole, but a reasonable and realistic increase in spending

[Taylor James]

Red 4 said:

Brooking10 said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

Nice to see positive hand in pockets contributions to the tragedy as opposed to the knee-jerk reactions I've just read in the last few pages.

Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.

All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.

Good post

I agree.

"Sufficiently manned" though ?

Staffed, Shirley ?

You need numbers to deal with numbers.

Filling the gaps with soldiers (with all due respect to our armed forces) is unlikely to end well.

I suspect many on here would like to see the caravans flattened by a Challenger 2, preferably with the occupants still inside it, but it's never going to happen.

Nope. People just want to see their use of violent resistance to arrest removed from their box of tricks. No different to how they detest the idea of no-go areas in non-traveller areas.

[Red 4]

Greendubber said:

I don't think he's white knighting at all, just pointing out that it's not as easy as some are saying to deal with the issues they cause and the community as a whole.

There are lots of nasty feral scum travellers and those are the ones who attract attention for all the wrong reasons. There are sections of the traveller community that aren't like that though, they fly quietly under most people's radar due to not bringing misery with them.

... And there are lots of nasty, feral scum in many other sections of society.

They don't live on "caravan sites" though and are often not as easily identifiable.

[rscott]

Taylor James said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

This is a problem that will only be solved with resoarces.
A properly funded and manned police force able to properly and thoroughly investigate all crimes in an unprejudiced manner and bring to bear sufficient resources to deal with public order issues should certain communities react in an illegal manner should they take umbrage would be sufficient to deal with the problem.
Knee-jerk gypsie bashing will deal with nothing.

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 19th August 12:07

So do you agree that crimes and anti-social behaviour by travellers should be treated the same way as if they were committed by non-travellers?

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The problem is the practicalities - there aren't enough police available to safely go into traveller camps regularly for burglary, theft, motoring offences, etc.
If we had more police available and a criminal justice system that wasn't chronically underfunded, it might be possible to do take action.

However, given tje reduction in police numbers, funding cuts to the rest of the justice system (for example only 3 out of 15 courts at Southwark Crown Courts are operating this week) , there's little they can practically do.

A barrister (https://twitter.com/DunneJonathan ) has been compiling details of how many Crown Courts are sitting today - of the 34 surveyed, 2 are fully utilised. Overall, 127 of the 260 courts are not in action. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10jGTL6-eFAC36e...

And we wonder why prosecutions take so long?

[Greendubber]

Red 4 said:

Greendubber said:

I don't think he's white knighting at all, just pointing out that it's not as easy as some are saying to deal with the issues they cause and the community as a whole.

There are lots of nasty feral scum travellers and those are the ones who attract attention for all the wrong reasons. There are sections of the traveller community that aren't like that though, they fly quietly under most people's radar due to not bringing misery with them.

... And there are lots of nasty, feral scum in many other sections of society.

They don't live on "caravan sites" though and are often not as easily identifiable.

Of course and the police have been trying to deal with those for years with one hand tied behind their backs also.

Your average Johnny stbag signs on, has some form of address etc and isn't as easily hidden and leads a less transient lifestyle fortunately.

[Mothersruin]

Greendubber said:

Gameface said:

Former copper white knighting for travellers.

Weird.

I don't think he's white knighting at all, just pointing out that it's not as easy as some are saying to deal with the issues they cause and the community as a whole.

There are lots of nasty feral scum travellers and those are the ones who attract attention for all the wrong reasons. There are sections of the traveller community that aren't like that though, they fly tip quietly under most people's radar due to not bringing misery with them.

[Greendubber]

Mothersruin said:

Greendubber said:

Gameface said:

Former copper white knighting for travellers.

Weird.

I don't think he's white knighting at all, just pointing out that it's not as easy as some are saying to deal with the issues they cause and the community as a whole.

There are lots of nasty feral scum travellers and those are the ones who attract attention for all the wrong reasons. There are sections of the traveller community that aren't like that though, they fly tip quietly under most people's radar due to not bringing misery with them.

Yes hilarious I'm sure.

However, just because he is being realistic and not joining in the the baying mob and pitchfork mentality and being realistic that doesn't make him some kind of protector of the s.

[Red 4]

Greendubber said:

Your average Johnny stbag signs on, has some form of address etc and isn't as easily hidden and leads a less transient lifestyle fortunately.

Point taken.

Maybe it's time for a new police unit.

Traveller Intercept and Tactical Support. (T.I.T.S. - police love a good acronym).

[wjb]

This thread is an embarrassment.

RIP PC Harper.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Taylor James said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

This is a problem that will only be solved with resoarces.
A properly funded and manned police force able to properly and thoroughly investigate all crimes in an unprejudiced manner and bring to bear sufficient resources to deal with public order issues should certain communities react in an illegal manner should they take umbrage would be sufficient to deal with the problem.
Knee-jerk gypsie bashing will deal with nothing.

Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 19th August 12:07

So do you agree that crimes and anti-social behaviour by travellers should be treated the same way as if they were committed by non-travellers?

Absolutely.

The letter of the law should be applied without favour or prejudice to all.

[anonymous-user]

Gameface said:

Former copper white knighting for travellers.

Weird.

By saying he believes they commit a disproportionate amount of crime?

In order to problem solve you need to accurately define the problem. Suggesting the majority hundreds of (potentially) thousands of people without evidence to do so is weird in my view. As well at the pub solutions, of course.

[Andy 308GTB]

From the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-49...

Police have been granted a 24-hour extension

The suspects in custody are:

A 13-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 16-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 16-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 17-year-old from Aldermaston, Berkshire
A 17-year-old from Bramley, Hampshire
An 18-year-old from Mortimer, Berkshire
A 20-year-old from Burghfield, Berkshire
A 20-year-old from Reading, Berkshire
A 24-year-old from Bramley, Hampshire
A 30-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire

[Taylor James]

La Liga said:

Gameface said:

Former copper white knighting for travellers.

Weird.

By saying he believes they commit a disproportionate amount of crime?

In order to problem solve you need to accurately define the problem. Suggesting the majority hundreds of (potentially) thousands of people without evidence to do so is weird in my view. As well at the pub solutions, of course.

There are a few problems. One widely discussed is that travellers will sometimes use force of numbers to frustrate arrests and investigations.

Do you agree that's a problem?

[Red 4]

Andy 308GTB said:

From the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-49...

Police have been granted a 24-hour extension

The suspects in custody are:

A 13-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 16-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 16-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire
A 17-year-old from Aldermaston, Berkshire
A 17-year-old from Bramley, Hampshire
An 18-year-old from Mortimer, Berkshire
A 20-year-old from Burghfield, Berkshire
A 20-year-old from Reading, Berkshire
A 24-year-old from Bramley, Hampshire
A 30-year-old from Burghfield Common, Berkshire

... All because they were (reportedly) out nicking a quad bike.

I agree with the other posters though. A further extension says the police are not in a position to charge.

Not good.

[anonymous-user]

Taylor James said:

There are a few problems. One widely discussed is that travellers will sometimes use force of numbers to frustrate arrests and investigations.

Do you agree that's a problem?

Here’s a clue Perry Mason, everybody on the thread would agree that that sometimes happens.

[Taylor James]

Brooking10 said:

Taylor James said:

There are a few problems. One widely discussed is that travellers will sometimes use force of numbers to frustrate arrests and investigations.

Do you agree that's a problem?

Here’s a clue Perry Mason, everybody on the thread would agree that that sometimes happens.

The question wasn't addressed to you. Your opinion doesn't interest me. I don't engage with people who can't post in a civil manner and this reply is just to help you understand that.

[anonymous-user]

Halb said:

Taylor James said:

Halb said:

How do 'we' know?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just disregarding all of the evidence that has been offered over this thread or can be found in most local papers several times a year?

'evidence.'
Right, OK< as you were.

Go to Weston Super Mare every year and watch them move round the town, trashing one park at a time, including the beach lawns. How many prosecutions ? None.

[Red 4]

Taylor James said:

The question wasn't addressed to you. Your opinion doesn't interest me. I don't engage with people who can't post in a civil manner and this reply is just to help you understand that.

You wouldn't be much use engaging with travellers then.

Still, keep your solutions coming.

And while you're at it perhaps you should go and raid the magic money tree - like Boris - and solve all the country's woes. (Except you won't because the police, courts and prisons are in meltdown and there is no real political will to solve "The traveller problem". )