Police Officer killed on duty
Discussion
Greendubber said:
Grahamdub said:
Greendubber said:
Yes, because there couldn't be anything else happening could there?
Probably not no. You are right and I bow to your superior wisdom. I live in a city of about 365k people. The response shift parades about 12 officers so 3 double crewed cars and the rest single crewed. At any one time there will probably be at least over 100 open logs if varying grades to deal with, anything from domestics, shop lifters, road traffic collisions, missing people, burglaries as well as dealing with people in custody etc.
Your big magic bottomless box of police officers simply doesn't exist.
For a provincial northern port town of 100,000 we would have on our 10-6 night shift
12 to 14 ranks
3 sergeants (1 custody)
Gaoler
Inspector
2 duty CID
DCI or sometimes DCS covering three nicks - dealing mainly with the suddens etc
2 traffic cars assigned to our area
Possibly one armed in addition covering the three areas
Dogbotherer
and a couple of randoms, sneakybeakies and regional bods.
also, bear in mind, several of those roles are now civilian, so there is arguably even less uniform than there was.
It seems we have run modern policing into the ground, with the officers being the sacrificial parts.
Castrol for a knave said:
Greendubber said:
Grahamdub said:
Greendubber said:
Yes, because there couldn't be anything else happening could there?
Probably not no. You are right and I bow to your superior wisdom. I live in a city of about 365k people. The response shift parades about 12 officers so 3 double crewed cars and the rest single crewed. At any one time there will probably be at least over 100 open logs if varying grades to deal with, anything from domestics, shop lifters, road traffic collisions, missing people, burglaries as well as dealing with people in custody etc.
Your big magic bottomless box of police officers simply doesn't exist.
For a provincial northern port town of 100,000 we would have on our 10-6 night shift
12 to 14 ranks
3 sergeants (1 custody)
Gaoler
Inspector
2 duty CID
DCI or sometimes DCS covering three nicks - dealing mainly with the suddens etc
2 traffic cars assigned to our area
Possibly one armed in addition covering the three areas
Dogbotherer
and a couple of randoms, sneakybeakies and regional bods.
also, bear in mind, several of those roles are now civilian, so there is arguably even less uniform than there was.
It seems we have run modern policing into the ground, with the officers being the sacrificial parts.
He used to tell me about when he joined there would be about 40 bobbies parading for a night shift, 3 inspectors, about 7 sergeants and the rest PCs, all sat about in massive parade room around a giant teapot all smoking a tab waiting to be briefed from the 'minor occurrences book' Now it's brief if you're not turned out early and look for these lads who are trying to murder each other with zombie knives if you get chance. By the way there are X amounts of early response jobs nights didn't make it to.
Even when I joined 12 years ago the city I live in was split into 3 areas and each area put out on average 20 bobbies on response. It was ace, loads of proactive work, self initiated prisoners, safety in numbers turning up to pub fights etc. Get a burglary in progress and we'd be on it, in numbers and get the offenders.
We were a great team, now the city is one massive area with about 12 to deal with everything and I hear burglaries going unanswered, domestics with loads of previous at houses with danger to officer markers on it and they're sending a single crewed bobby to it because there isn't anyone else.
The recent pledge from BoJo won't even scratch the surface.
Welshbeef said:
Andrew Harper’s wife has now left a tribute - Such a beautiful tribute, I’m very moved by it and shed tears reading it.
Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
You weren’t kidding were you. Just read it myself and found myself in the same position. That poor poor girl. Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
Petrus1983 said:
Welshbeef said:
Andrew Harper’s wife has now left a tribute - Such a beautiful tribute, I’m very moved by it and shed tears reading it.
Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
You weren’t kidding were you. Just read it myself and found myself in the same position. That poor poor girl. Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
Greendubber said:
Castrol for a knave said:
Greendubber said:
Grahamdub said:
Greendubber said:
Yes, because there couldn't be anything else happening could there?
Probably not no. You are right and I bow to your superior wisdom. I live in a city of about 365k people. The response shift parades about 12 officers so 3 double crewed cars and the rest single crewed. At any one time there will probably be at least over 100 open logs if varying grades to deal with, anything from domestics, shop lifters, road traffic collisions, missing people, burglaries as well as dealing with people in custody etc.
Your big magic bottomless box of police officers simply doesn't exist.
For a provincial northern port town of 100,000 we would have on our 10-6 night shift
12 to 14 ranks
3 sergeants (1 custody)
Gaoler
Inspector
2 duty CID
DCI or sometimes DCS covering three nicks - dealing mainly with the suddens etc
2 traffic cars assigned to our area
Possibly one armed in addition covering the three areas
Dogbotherer
and a couple of randoms, sneakybeakies and regional bods.
also, bear in mind, several of those roles are now civilian, so there is arguably even less uniform than there was.
It seems we have run modern policing into the ground, with the officers being the sacrificial parts.
He used to tell me about when he joined there would be about 40 bobbies parading for a night shift, 3 inspectors, about 7 sergeants and the rest PCs, all sat about in massive parade room around a giant teapot all smoking a tab waiting to be briefed from the 'minor occurrences book' Now it's brief if you're not turned out early and look for these lads who are trying to murder each other with zombie knives if you get chance. By the way there are X amounts of early response jobs nights didn't make it to.
Even when I joined 12 years ago the city I live in was split into 3 areas and each area put out on average 20 bobbies on response. It was ace, loads of proactive work, self initiated prisoners, safety in numbers turning up to pub fights etc. Get a burglary in progress and we'd be on it, in numbers and get the offenders.
We were a great team, now the city is one massive area with about 12 to deal with everything and I hear burglaries going unanswered, domestics with loads of previous at houses with danger to officer markers on it and they're sending a single crewed bobby to it because there isn't anyone else.
The recent pledge from BoJo won't even scratch the surface.
I left quite some time ago, but when I toyed with the idea of rejoining on the Experienced Hire /Direct Entry Programme I was soon talked out of it.
As a keen Proby, I used to go see the Warrants Man, get a few outstanding warrants and then give a few scrotes a 5 am wake up call.
Now, i'd be running from one job to another, trying to keep up with no time for self generated work.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand. if anything comes from this cruelty it's that the public wake up to the fact that our police service is at breaking point, and our spineless politicians have repeatedly thrown them to the wolves.
Greendubber said:
Petrus1983 said:
Welshbeef said:
Andrew Harper’s wife has now left a tribute - Such a beautiful tribute, I’m very moved by it and shed tears reading it.
Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
You weren’t kidding were you. Just read it myself and found myself in the same position. That poor poor girl. Appears they were childhood sweethearts and been together the last 13 years.
Hopefully somehow in time the rawness will ease
He will be remembered well and hopefully the strength of that memory is going to trigger some worthwhile changes.
All this talk of lack bodies available conflicts with my last brush with the law.
A verbal argument that I did not escalate because I know there are CCTV cameras there.
The other person involved tried to physically block me getting in my car, so I pushed him out the way and left the scene and went about my business for the morning.
Within 5 minutes there was 3 police cars on the scene, a meat wagon and a further car searching the local streets for me. Which wasn't difficult because my cars aren't exactly discreet and are quite well known in the area. The meat wagon was blocking the road FFS. All ridiculously over the top.
And you can't put it down to being a quiet morning because I was taken to a police station 15 miles away rather than the local one because the local ones cells were apparently full.
All that for a poxy assualt charge that my lawyers will have a field day with at court at the end of the year.
A verbal argument that I did not escalate because I know there are CCTV cameras there.
The other person involved tried to physically block me getting in my car, so I pushed him out the way and left the scene and went about my business for the morning.
Within 5 minutes there was 3 police cars on the scene, a meat wagon and a further car searching the local streets for me. Which wasn't difficult because my cars aren't exactly discreet and are quite well known in the area. The meat wagon was blocking the road FFS. All ridiculously over the top.
And you can't put it down to being a quiet morning because I was taken to a police station 15 miles away rather than the local one because the local ones cells were apparently full.
All that for a poxy assualt charge that my lawyers will have a field day with at court at the end of the year.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7374459/M...
Before he was led away, Foster appeared to wink at his family in the public gallery.
His lawyer, Rob Jacques said: 'On behalf of him and his family I want to say three things. He denies any involvement in the horrific murder of PC Harper. We urge the police to follow all lines of enquiry and for the public to come forward and co-operate.'
Seem honourable type of chaps (solicitor and accused)
Before he was led away, Foster appeared to wink at his family in the public gallery.
His lawyer, Rob Jacques said: 'On behalf of him and his family I want to say three things. He denies any involvement in the horrific murder of PC Harper. We urge the police to follow all lines of enquiry and for the public to come forward and co-operate.'
Seem honourable type of chaps (solicitor and accused)
What people need to remember when comparing decades ago is that demand was also much less.
Few mobile phones.
A lot less technological crime or crime that has increased due to technology.
The variables of policing mean that there will sometimes be lots of people able to attend an incident (and it depends what it’s been called on as etc).
Few mobile phones.
A lot less technological crime or crime that has increased due to technology.
Gameface said:
All this talk of lack bodies available conflicts with my last brush with the law.
Resourcing issues don’t mean that must be apparent at every one of the millions of incidents that are called in to the police. The variables of policing mean that there will sometimes be lots of people able to attend an incident (and it depends what it’s been called on as etc).
Greendubber said:
Grahamdub said:
Greendubber said:
Yes, because there couldn't be anything else happening could there?
Probably not no. You are right and I bow to your superior wisdom. I live in a city of about 365k people. The response shift parades about 12 officers so 3 double crewed cars and the rest single crewed. At any one time there will probably be at least over 100 open logs if varying grades to deal with, anything from domestics, shop lifters, road traffic collisions, missing people, burglaries as well as dealing with people in custody etc.
Your big magic bottomless box of police officers simply doesn't exist.
Gameface said:
All this talk of lack bodies available conflicts with my last brush with the law.
A verbal argument that I did not escalate because I know there are CCTV cameras there.
The other person involved tried to physically block me getting in my car, so I pushed him out the way and left the scene and went about my business for the morning.
Within 5 minutes there was 3 police cars on the scene, a meat wagon and a further car searching the local streets for me. Which wasn't difficult because my cars aren't exactly discreet and are quite well known in the area. The meat wagon was blocking the road FFS. All ridiculously over the top.
And you can't put it down to being a quiet morning because I was taken to a police station 15 miles away rather than the local one because the local ones cells were apparently full.
All that for a poxy assualt charge that my lawyers will have a field day with at court at the end of the year.
This does confuse me. I heard an ex copper ring LBC who'd been injured in an attack he suggested was a direct result of cuts and consequently being on his own. I've never seen an incident of any nature with less than 2 cars responding. Regularly it's 3 to pull a car over. Let alone a solo copper in a vehicle.A verbal argument that I did not escalate because I know there are CCTV cameras there.
The other person involved tried to physically block me getting in my car, so I pushed him out the way and left the scene and went about my business for the morning.
Within 5 minutes there was 3 police cars on the scene, a meat wagon and a further car searching the local streets for me. Which wasn't difficult because my cars aren't exactly discreet and are quite well known in the area. The meat wagon was blocking the road FFS. All ridiculously over the top.
And you can't put it down to being a quiet morning because I was taken to a police station 15 miles away rather than the local one because the local ones cells were apparently full.
All that for a poxy assualt charge that my lawyers will have a field day with at court at the end of the year.
How many officers responded to this burglary? Because with 10 suspects (god knows what sort of raid this was) obviously this would require at least a police van full, and a couple of cars. Did the poor chap come on his own as backup?
Other issues raised by various former officers was the cut to community and thus intelligence led policing. Without wanting to oversimplify, this to me sounds like knowing who the local wronguns are, something we never needed the police to assist in. I can see how this would break down with station closures, but surely intelligence sharing is facilitated by technology and communication and can be carried out with fewer staff.
Many are turning their noses up at the 20,000 new recruits due to lack of experience but if we're arresting people of the bacck of Tweets then you don't need bobbies on the beat for that. Made me laugh a Welsh force posting images of a suspect with an amusing haircut, and then taking the time to point out that people mocking him in their responses could fall foul of the law themselves.
Quite a complex issue but a moderate amount of properly trained, equipped and efficiently deployed staff is the common sense approach. Body cams over paper work. No point investing in clerks in blue.
R Mutt said:
Many are turning their noses up at the 20,000 new recruits due to lack of experience
Genuine question to the police/ex police on this thread - how well do ex-Forces fit in as officers? I know we don't have enough of those recruits either... but does front line forces experience help or hinder?Gameface said:
All this talk of lack bodies available conflicts with my last brush with the law.
Do the math.E&W - 120,000 cops. 30,000 of those are Metropolitan Police.
That leaves 90,000 for the rest of E&W outside Greater London.
Subtract senior officers, nonoperational roles, specialist departments (many of whom won't have worn a uniform for years), officers on restricted duties, people on courses, leave, off sick, etc etc. etc.
Being generous here let's say that leaves 60,000.
Now divide that number by 5 for shifts = 12,000.
So that's 12,000 cops to cover everything from Berwick on Tweed down to Penzance.
Major cities like Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham, Birmingham, Cardiff, Plymouth, etc and everything in between.
To put that in perspective, Wembley stadium holds 90,000.
Imagine 12,000 people there and how empty the stadium would look.
That's your lot for covering the whole of England and Wales and dealing with everything that occurs within that massive area with a population of 56 million people.
It's a back of a fag packet calculation, obviously, but you get the idea.
Castrol for a knave said:
Crazy isn't it?
I left quite some time ago, but when I toyed with the idea of rejoining on the Experienced Hire /Direct Entry Programme I was soon talked out of it.
As a keen Proby, I used to go see the Warrants Man, get a few outstanding warrants and then give a few scrotes a 5 am wake up call.
Now, i'd be running from one job to another, trying to keep up with no time for self generated work.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand. if anything comes from this cruelty it's that the public wake up to the fact that our police service is at breaking point, and our spineless politicians have repeatedly thrown them to the wolves.
There are the same number of serving officers now as there were in the late 80s. What has changed are priorities and methods of policing. I left quite some time ago, but when I toyed with the idea of rejoining on the Experienced Hire /Direct Entry Programme I was soon talked out of it.
As a keen Proby, I used to go see the Warrants Man, get a few outstanding warrants and then give a few scrotes a 5 am wake up call.
Now, i'd be running from one job to another, trying to keep up with no time for self generated work.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand. if anything comes from this cruelty it's that the public wake up to the fact that our police service is at breaking point, and our spineless politicians have repeatedly thrown them to the wolves.
It all needs a serious review.
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