Police Officer killed on duty

[Red 4]

R Mutt said:

I don't wish to perpetuate the debate about cuts, but I have to vent about another LBC caller attributing most crime to austerity, even begging. By that logic he would justify beggars then robbing you.

If speculation is correct that the offender is from this particular community for whom crime is simply a way of life then that further invalidates the connection to austerity in this instance as no government in our history has sought to address the issue.

Most crime due to austerity ? No.
But there have been big increases in overall recorded crime.
What would you put that down to ?

Increases in begging down to austerity ? Yes.
There have been large increases in the number of homeless in recent years and many hostels/ local authority funded shelters have been closed.
What would you put that down to ?

This crime due to austerity ?
I think many on here have made their feelings known about the travelling community in general and commented on associated criminality.

It's bizarre that you are trying to draw similarities between the rise in recorded crime, begging and travellers though ...

Do carry on ...

[Vaud]

Dan_1981 said:

JoJo Hennington?

All locked down for me.

Wrong spelling. Change the first "e" for an "a"

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

Vaud said:

Dan_1981 said:

JoJo Hennington?

All locked down for me.

Wrong spelling. Change the first "e" for an "a"

It's been cleared out.

[troika]

PurpleTurtle said:

The mother's (wide open) Facebook is all "my litle angel didn't do this, someone else did and needs to confess".

Quelle surprise.

Of course he didn’t, love. He wasn’t out thieving either, never ever. Those ‘parents’ are a fantastic advert for sterilisation at birth. They should be locked up as well.

I can’t read the poor Widows statement without feeling completely numb. An utter waste.

[Vaud]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

It's been cleared out.

I'm reading it now...

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

Red 4 said:

Gameface said:

All this talk of lack bodies available conflicts with my last brush with the law.

Do the math.

E&W - 120,000 cops. 30,000 of those are Metropolitan Police.

That leaves 90,000 for the rest of E&W outside Greater London.

Subtract senior officers, nonoperational roles, specialist departments (many of whom won't have worn a uniform for years), officers on restricted duties, people on courses, leave, off sick, etc etc. etc.

Being generous here let's say that leaves 60,000.

Now divide that number by 5 for shifts = 12,000.

So that's 12,000 cops to cover everything from Berwick on Tweed down to Penzance.
Major cities like Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham, Birmingham, Cardiff, Plymouth, etc and everything in between.

To put that in perspective, Wembley stadium holds 90,000.
Imagine 12,000 people there and how empty the stadium would look.
That's your lot for covering the whole of England and Wales and dealing with everything that occurs within that massive area with a population of 56 million people.

It's a back of a fag packet calculation, obviously, but you get the idea.

Doesn't seem many when you put it like that.
It'd be interesting to see the numbers for the US...they must have a much higher percentage of Police to Civilians...but is it really any safer for the Police or Civilians there (loaded question, as I would guess not especially with the gun element)?

[chrisgtx]

I’ve just looked at her page.
And to be fair it looks completely normal to me and nothing like our local traveller types, normal family pictures and spelling. And in all fairness he doesn’t have the stereotypical dayl look either.

[R Mutt]

Red 4 said:

R Mutt said:

I don't wish to perpetuate the debate about cuts, but I have to vent about another LBC caller attributing most crime to austerity, even begging. By that logic he would justify beggars then robbing you.

If speculation is correct that the offender is from this particular community for whom crime is simply a way of life then that further invalidates the connection to austerity in this instance as no government in our history has sought to address the issue.

Most crime due to austerity ? No.
But there have been big increases in overall recorded crime.
What would you put that down to ?

Increases in begging down to austerity ? Yes.
There have been large increases in the number of homeless in recent years and many hostels/ local authority funded shelters have been closed.
What would you put that down to ?

This crime due to austerity ?
I think many on here have made their feelings known about the travelling community in general and commented on associated criminality.

It's bizarre that you are trying to draw similarities between the rise in recorded crime, begging and travellers though ...

Do carry on ...

I didn't call in to LBC about increased crime and begging or start speculation about the background of the offender, in connection to this tragic death.

Cuts may have put people on the street but people have also come from abroad and ended up there.

[Vaud]

chrisgtx said:

I’ve just looked at her page.
And to be fair it looks completely normal to me and nothing like our local traveller types, normal family pictures and spelling. And in all fairness he doesn’t have the stereotypical dayl look either.

I'm inclined to agree. Would fit in the council thread but I'm sure some things I do would as well.

[Welshbeef]

https://youtu.be/RBEIIDWIRec

[Dan_1981]

Vaud said:

chrisgtx said:

I’ve just looked at her page.
And to be fair it looks completely normal to me and nothing like our local traveller types, normal family pictures and spelling. And in all fairness he doesn’t have the stereotypical dayl look either.

I'm inclined to agree. Would fit in the council thread but I'm sure some things I do would as well.

Got it to work and am inclined to agree.

Same for sisters & others.

Lot's of plea's for the guilty parties to own up and stop letting an innocent man take the rap.

[turbobloke]

There was an overall recorded crime increase of 14% reported in 2018.

Crime recorded by the police reflects police policy, action and inaction. If police target a particular type of offence as a matter of policy, one would hope detection increases and it usually does. Recorded crime figures respond accordingly. Depending on what gets targeted over the course of a year (and what isn't), overall recorded crime figures will respond accordingly.

The 14% rise in recorded police crime figures sits alongside a 10% fall in crime for the same period as measured by the Crime Survey of England and Wales.

The Crime Survey for England and Wales is a better source for reasons set out above. In terms of this thread, searches for crime committed by a particular category of culprit don't yield much, shame.

[Puggit]

chrisgtx said:

I’ve just looked at her page.
And to be fair it looks completely normal to me and nothing like our local traveller types, normal family pictures and spelling. And in all fairness he doesn’t have the stereotypical dayl look either.

Plenty of clues to their heritage in there.

Pingewood is a strange place. A collection of cottages along some roads that link quarries/recycling companies to the main roads. Dusty, deserted and dead end. There isn't a permanent site as far as I know, but the houses are typically either really posh and well hidden or small rows of cottages with really run down gardens. Think country side council estate.

Oh, and a God forsaken hotel people don't return to.

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

There was an overall recorded crime increase of 14% reported in 2018.

Crime recorded by the police reflects police policy, action and inaction. If police target a particular type of offence as a matter of policy, one would hope detection increases and it usually does. Recorded crime figures respond accordingly. Depending on what gets targeted over the course of a year (and what isn't), overall recorded crime figures will respond accordingly.

The 14% rise in recorded police crime figures sits alongside a 10% fall in crime for the same period as measured by the Crime Survey of England and Wales.

The Crime Survey for England and Wales is a better source for reasons set out above. In terms of this thread, searches for crime committed by a particular category of culprit don't yield much, shame.

You're right about the CSEW being a better data source, but most recorded crime comes from people calling the police and having it recorded directly without any police officer involvement.

One of the main increases is the police are better at recording crime, which has been helped by recorded crime not being measured as 'performance' as we saw during the New Labour years, for example.

[Pothole]

rscott said:

Cantaloupe said:

Greendubber said:

Good idea as it seems I know a little bit more about it than you.

I live in a city of about 365k people. The response shift parades about 12 officers so 3 double crewed cars and the rest single crewed. At any one time there will probably be at least over 100 open logs if varying grades to deal with, anything from domestics, shop lifters, road traffic collisions, missing people, burglaries as well as dealing with people in custody etc.

The number of officers per 100 000 of population is interesting for England and Wales, well down the list with only a measly 208.
Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]

Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?

Edited by Cantaloupe on Tuesday 20th August 09:00

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00634/SN00634.pdf

National average is 208 per 100,000, but for the Met, is 350 per 100,000. Essex, for example, is 168 and Hampshire 136.
Those figures include long term absentees, so anyone on parental leave, career breaks, long term sickness/injury, etc are included.

You're also not allowing for the fact those staff are split into multiple shifts, and that the allocation of officers is unlikely to be uniform across the whole county - it's not directly proportionate to the population of the town discussed.. It can't be - if a double crewed car is covering a rural part of Essex, they're could only be covering a few thousand people, compared to the number of people they'd be covering if in Chelmsford or Colchester.

I know of one, small, non-Home Office-funded force which recently had two officers available for the counties of Notts and Lincs. One each. On a Friday night.

[pavarotti1980]

Puggit said:

Plenty of clues to their heritage in there.

Pingewood is a strange place. A collection of cottages along some roads that link quarries/recycling companies to the main roads. Dusty, deserted and dead end. There isn't a permanent site as far as I know, but the houses are typically either really posh and well hidden or small rows of cottages with really run down gardens. Think country side council estate.

Oh, and a God forsaken hotel people don't return to.

I think I have stopped in that hotel. Did it used to be known as something else and have watersports on the lake around it?

[Pothole]

Vaud said:

R Mutt said:

Many are turning their noses up at the 20,000 new recruits due to lack of experience

Genuine question to the police/ex police on this thread - how well do ex-Forces fit in as officers? I know we don't have enough of those recruits either... but does front line forces experience help or hinder?

I'm staff, not an officer. From (admittedly limited) experience, they're good at following instructions and nabbing people for not following the rules, excellent at moaning, not very good at empathy or reading situations/acting in everyone's best interests/using discretion. Also not the best at interacting with colleagues they need help from.

[Red 4]

Some people are saying Foster is not part of the "travelling community".

Well, according to the reports, all of those arrested were arrested at the same location which appeared to be a "caravan site".

Having a permanent address/ an address suitable for service of a summons is pretty much the norm amongst the travelling community.
It often stops them getting locked up.
It doesn't mean they actually live there.

Interesting though ...

[Bigends]

Pothole said:

Vaud said:

R Mutt said:

Many are turning their noses up at the 20,000 new recruits due to lack of experience

Genuine question to the police/ex police on this thread - how well do ex-Forces fit in as officers? I know we don't have enough of those recruits either... but does front line forces experience help or hinder?

I'm staff, not an officer. From (admittedly limited) experience, they're good at following instructions and nabbing people for not following the rules, excellent at moaning, not very good at empathy or reading situations/acting in everyone's best interests/using discretion. Also not the best at interacting with colleagues they need help from.

I served with plenty of ex-forces officers. Generally they were no better or worse than other recruits in from civvy street.
They did no better on the promotion ladder either.

[Red 4]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

It'd be interesting to see the numbers for the US...they must have a much higher percentage of Police to Civilians...but is it really any safer for the Police or Civilians there (loaded question, as I would guess not especially with the gun element)?

That's actually quite a difficult question to answer.

Law enforcement in generally split into local (city police), sheriff departments (county), State, Federal and special jurisdiction (university, port, railway, etc) police.

The numbers aren't readily available but best guess is about 850,000.

Not that many when you consider the population is 320 million(ish).

Having said that, whenever I have been to the U.S. they do seem to be everywhere

Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 20th August 17:29