Police Officer killed on duty
Discussion
twing said:
Red 4 said:
Some people are saying Foster is not part of the "travelling community".
Well, according to the reports, all of those arrested were arrested at the same location which appeared to be a "caravan site".
Having a permanent address/ an address suitable for service of a summons is pretty much the norm amongst the travelling community.
It often stops them getting locked up.
It doesn't mean they actually live there.
Interesting though ...
He isn't part of that community. He's not from that site, he lives in a town a few miles away. Went to school & college and has never lived on a caravan park.Well, according to the reports, all of those arrested were arrested at the same location which appeared to be a "caravan site".
Having a permanent address/ an address suitable for service of a summons is pretty much the norm amongst the travelling community.
It often stops them getting locked up.
It doesn't mean they actually live there.
Interesting though ...
One of the initial police press releases said all of the males "were arrested at the same location" - a different location to the scene. Later reports confirmed that to be a "caravan site".
Any comment ? (Not being argumentative, just curious to know).
rscott said:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docu...
National average is 208 per 100,000, but for the Met, is 350 per 100,000. Essex, for example, is 168 and Hampshire 136.
Those figures include long term absentees, so anyone on parental leave, career breaks, long term sickness/injury, etc are included.
You're also not allowing for the fact those staff are split into multiple shifts, and that the allocation of officers is unlikely to be uniform across the whole county - it's not directly proportionate to the population of the town discussed.. It can't be - if a double crewed car is covering a rural part of Essex, they're could only be covering a few thousand people, compared to the number of people they'd be covering if in Chelmsford or Colchester.
Looking at that, if accurate, it’s not surprising our old area has gone to sNational average is 208 per 100,000, but for the Met, is 350 per 100,000. Essex, for example, is 168 and Hampshire 136.
Those figures include long term absentees, so anyone on parental leave, career breaks, long term sickness/injury, etc are included.
You're also not allowing for the fact those staff are split into multiple shifts, and that the allocation of officers is unlikely to be uniform across the whole county - it's not directly proportionate to the population of the town discussed.. It can't be - if a double crewed car is covering a rural part of Essex, they're could only be covering a few thousand people, compared to the number of people they'd be covering if in Chelmsford or Colchester.
t.
La Liga said:
It's not unusual for traveller criminals to work with non-traveller criminals.
He (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
It doesn't a scumbag is a scumbag no matter where they liveHe (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
La Liga said:
It's not unusual for traveller criminals to work with non-traveller criminals.
He (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
It doesn't make any difference.He (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
Many have voiced their opinion of travellers on this thread through.
If Foster is not a traveller it may not fit in with their vitriol (even if he was working with travellers).
MC Bodge said:
This thread has gone a bit quiet.....
It's gone a bit quiet because it's sub judice, and rightly so.Also most of the anti traveller and police, for or against, discussion is simply repeats of previous combat on such as the brewery thread, the lot who were in NZ and the now long closed general traveller thread. Much of it wasn't worth the repetition imvho.
Still on the upside it provided me with a pointer as to rovinghawk's returning new identity, which is useful, another one for the ignore pile.
Red 4 said:
La Liga said:
It's not unusual for traveller criminals to work with non-traveller criminals.
He (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
It doesn't make any difference.He (if it's true / proven) was burgling and then ran into a police officer. Not sure why it makes any difference if he's a traveller or not.
Many have voiced their opinion of travellers on this thread through.
If Foster is not a traveller it may not fit in with their vitriol (even if he was working with travellers).
FiF said:
It's gone a bit quiet because it's sub judice, and rightly so.
Why do you consider it sub judice, FiF ?I haven't seen anything on this thread that would be considered prejudicial to a court in respect of Foster.
The fact that legal proceedings are active is not a bar to discussing the subject.
ETA - Proceedings have been active since the suspects were arrested.
Active is defined in Schedule 1 of The Contempt of Court Act 1981 - and includes arrest - yet this thread has been running since then.
Nothing has changed other than Foster being charged.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 20th August 20:00
Vaud said:
Genuine question to the police/ex police on this thread - how well do ex-Forces fit in as officers? I know we don't have enough of those recruits either... but does front line forces experience help or hinder?
Ex-forces personnel are just like people in the main. My experience is that, in general, they are dependable. There are some who are extreme, both ends. Some shine, and they are the ones you want in charge of you, or next to you in a nasty situation. It can help that they've been in worse situations as most tend not to panic. I worked with some in firearms. They were quite expert, but not particularly brilliant as coppers in the main. One was a bit special. He was enthusiastic and had a high work ethic, and play ethic come to that. Dead straight as well.
Worked under an ex-forces bloke who went for the top job in London. His error was being truthful about what he wanted as boss. Didn't get the job. He'd have made a difference, although there would have been a bit of pain for many, many of whom who had it coming.
An ex naval commander, the last direct entrant I was told, who came in after the system had ended but was taken on anyway, was a gem. I admired him. I went to him with a problem, a really difficult one, and he sorted it out for me. I doubt anyone else would have done. Good bloke. The best. A fellow sergeant took a moral stand. He backed him up and it killed any chance of further promotion. He took all the flak at a time when it was best to keep your head down. I know no one else would have done that. He died a couple of years ago and I was surprised how much it upset me.
Ex-forces have an advantage when they join. They understand discipline. The rest learn, sooner or later.
Cantaloupe said:
The number of officers per 100 000 of population is interesting for England and Wales, well down the list with only a measly 208.
Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
There are over 340 per 100k in France, and 370 for Germany. There are differences in policing style and regulation, but not enough to matter than much. The funding is a lot higher as well. One German policing area had a helicopter fleet. Fleet; that means not so much more than one, but more than one shared with other forces. There's posh for you.Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
Edited by Cantaloupe on Tuesday 20th August 09:00
Another point of note is that most of the swingeing cuts under May hit support staff. These, non warrant-holders, tended to be specialists, from typists, to other, more technical jobs. The work, of course, still has to be done, so it is often completed by officers. No offence to serving officers, but they type a lot slower. Of the 208 in England/Wales, quite a number will be on admin duty. They'll be shown as available, but if they are called out, it will just mean more work for them later, which will keep them in longer. Transcribing taped interviews; used to be done entirely by civvies in my force. Those were the days.
In my 30 years, the job went from officers completing all paperwork, to civilians doing a lot of the case-prep. May ensured that the service went back decades by demanding that the civvies be sacked first.
Derek Smith said:
Cantaloupe said:
The number of officers per 100 000 of population is interesting for England and Wales, well down the list with only a measly 208.
Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
There are over 340 per 100k in France, and 370 for Germany. There are differences in policing style and regulation, but not enough to matter than much. The funding is a lot higher as well. One German policing area had a helicopter fleet. Fleet; that means not so much more than one, but more than one shared with other forces. There's posh for you.Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
Edited by Cantaloupe on Tuesday 20th August 09:00
Another point of note is that most of the swingeing cuts under May hit support staff. These, non warrant-holders, tended to be specialists, from typists, to other, more technical jobs. The work, of course, still has to be done, so it is often completed by officers. No offence to serving officers, but they type a lot slower. Of the 208 in England/Wales, quite a number will be on admin duty. They'll be shown as available, but if they are called out, it will just mean more work for them later, which will keep them in longer. Transcribing taped interviews; used to be done entirely by civvies in my force. Those were the days.
In my 30 years, the job went from officers completing all paperwork, to civilians doing a lot of the case-prep. May ensured that the service went back decades by demanding that the civvies be sacked first.
I mentioned I was worried some pages back.
I still am to be fair.
If you look I haven't joined in with some of the arguing that has gone on in this thread. I think a lot of it is unnecessary to be blunt.But it's what happens here and it was always inevitable really.
The guy that died was 28 and that really hit me. I dunno why I didn't know him but it really has.
You hope that you don't have your children go before you. I think the dignity and sadness of his loved ones has been heartbreaking.
I still am to be fair.
If you look I haven't joined in with some of the arguing that has gone on in this thread. I think a lot of it is unnecessary to be blunt.But it's what happens here and it was always inevitable really.
The guy that died was 28 and that really hit me. I dunno why I didn't know him but it really has.
You hope that you don't have your children go before you. I think the dignity and sadness of his loved ones has been heartbreaking.
The USA has 913161 officers with a per 100 000 figure of 284. [ 2015 ]
I watch those you tube car and body cam real life instances and an lone officer
in trouble or an officer in pursuit of a wrong 'un can count on back-up within minutes
rather than tens of minutes.
It's maybe not the case, but lone officers in cruisers, there seems to be more on
duty, at one time, than in the UK, day or night..
I watch those you tube car and body cam real life instances and an lone officer
in trouble or an officer in pursuit of a wrong 'un can count on back-up within minutes
rather than tens of minutes.
It's maybe not the case, but lone officers in cruisers, there seems to be more on
duty, at one time, than in the UK, day or night..
Derek Smith said:
Cantaloupe said:
The number of officers per 100 000 of population is interesting for England and Wales, well down the list with only a measly 208.
Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
There are over 340 per 100k in France, and 370 for Germany. There are differences in policing style and regulation, but not enough to matter than much. The funding is a lot higher as well. One German policing area had a helicopter fleet. Fleet; that means not so much more than one, but more than one shared with other forces. There's posh for you.Compared to Scotland with 324, and N.Ireland with a stonking 372 officers. [ Greece 503 !!! , eh ? ]
Even taking that figure , with a pop. of 365 000, the number available to police that city should be 759 officers,
or is my rithmatic all to buggery ?
Edited by Cantaloupe on Tuesday 20th August 09:00
Another point of note is that most of the swingeing cuts under May hit support staff. These, non warrant-holders, tended to be specialists, from typists, to other, more technical jobs. The work, of course, still has to be done, so it is often completed by officers. No offence to serving officers, but they type a lot slower. Of the 208 in England/Wales, quite a number will be on admin duty. They'll be shown as available, but if they are called out, it will just mean more work for them later, which will keep them in longer. Transcribing taped interviews; used to be done entirely by civvies in my force. Those were the days.
In my 30 years, the job went from officers completing all paperwork, to civilians doing a lot of the case-prep. May ensured that the service went back decades by demanding that the civvies be sacked first.
Bigends said:
wc98 said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Nice to see positive hand in pockets contributions to the tragedy as opposed to the knee-jerk reactions I've just read in the last few pages.
Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
i believe the people involved in this case are being investigated exactly like that. let's hope your faith in the justice system prevails. Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
a question for those in the force commenting, if the people in custody at the moment refuse to name the driver, could they be charged with perverting the course of justice ?
i have to say i am concerned at what the outcome will be here. a good few years a neighbour of a good friend of mine and her husband were hit head on by a van allegedly driven by someone known to like a drink. his background is similar to that suggested for the people involved in this case.
he legged it, leaving them in the wreckage , injuries sustained by both left them unable to work again, one paralysed from the neck down.
his story was he sold the van to a traveler the day before the accident, and nothing ever happened to him.
Even if that's possible, the RK / driver isn't under an obligation to complete it.
I don't think they'll be too worried about the punishment for not doing so compared to the punishment for murder.
Missed these first time around:
I don't think they'll be too worried about the punishment for not doing so compared to the punishment for murder.
Missed these first time around:
Porsche guy said:
With respect LL, you do come across as possibly someone who has some kind of connection to the topic discussed, because do try to negate the negative aspects of their behaviour judging by your posts on this thread?
No connection to this case or travellers. I don't try to negate their negative behaviour at all. I am basically suggesting that (potentially) hundreds of thousands of people aren't running amok without consequence as people have proposed. Taylor James said:
There are a few problems. One widely discussed is that travellers will sometimes use force of numbers to frustrate arrests and investigations.
Do you agree that's a problem?
When dealing with the criminal element it can certainly be an issue. As it can with any gang / group of criminals, of course. Do you agree that's a problem?
steveT350C said:
Sky News Breaking
@SkyNewsBreak
Avon and Somerset Police says a police officer has suffered severe facial injuries while trying to detain a suspect in the Staple Hill area of Bristol
Just heard it on the local news. It was last night by the sound of it.@SkyNewsBreak
Avon and Somerset Police says a police officer has suffered severe facial injuries while trying to detain a suspect in the Staple Hill area of Bristol
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/po...
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