What3words

[Jasey_]

Riley Blue said:

andy_s said:

surveyor said:

The mountain rescue thread is ridiculous.

First of all I support that people should be prepared.

But some scenarios...

1. on a mountain injured and in pain. Scratchy mobile signal. What is easier - trying to get over a 6 or 8 figure OS ref, or three words.

2. Same mountain. No mobile reception. Oops. You are screwed.

3. On the way to the mountain in an unfamiliar area. You come across a crash. Scratchy mobile reception again...

I inspect telephone masts - often in remote areas. I think it's a great idea, and have downloaded the app.

If you've no reception, you've no contact, whatever the app.

I just use the map itself, or OS app if you've no map, and txt/vox. [Have done in a real situation]. The solution already existed.

In more general life (road accident etc) for someone who hasn't a clue about maps etc, then it's not a bad idea.

I downloaded the OS Locate app as recommended by Scottish Mountain Rescue, stepped outside and used it to 'pinpoint' my position then emailed the six-figure reference to myself. I clicked on the e-mail link to open the OS map and location in the browser on my laptop - it shows my position as being about 100 metres away from where I am, around a corner in a different street.

What3words, by comparison, is accurate to within a few feet.

What3Words pretty much showed my position in my house last night.



Anything run by Ordnance Survey will stop working after Brexit anyway

[p4cks]

Jobbo said:

It's only usable with an app so entirely reliant on a battery. There's no logic to it, unlike grid references where you can tell if somewhere is north-east of you; you have no idea where fondle.otters.pocket is relative to upturn.full.bucket.

So it's proprietary and not logical without a device running software. There must be some money behind it because it's being advertised fairly heavily currently but surely the only reason to spend money is for a return? I'll stick to grid refs, thanks, and simply use a map on my phone if I've got that with me.

Absolutely this. When I saw the first article a while back I was scratching my head thinking that surely if you can obtain three words from an app using the internet you can also get the grid reference or long/lat of your location.

It's nonsense.

[OzzyR1]

Think this is really taking off now, especially as it has been adopted in the latest editions of the big global travel guide publishers; Fodors, Lonely Planet etc.

After the description of (say) a statue in the corner of Red Square, it now says "house.vehicle.tree" which will take you to the exact location rather than the convoluted description of how to find the thing in the preceding editions.

[768]

andy_s said:

If you've no reception, you've no contact, whatever the app.

I just use the map itself, or OS app if you've no map, and txt/vox. [Have done in a real situation]. The solution already existed.

In more general life (road accident etc) for someone who hasn't a clue about maps etc, then it's not a bad idea.

I can see it might be useful if two people are out, one breaks their leg and they have no signal. Probably easier to run to the nearest place with a phone line remembering three words than a grid ref. I can only see it being useful in the rarest of circumstances, but I guess when it is useful it's very useful.

[FiF]

Bill said:

keirik said:

They're a bit daft then, as most people have absolutely no idea how to get a grid reference.

If they need a 1mx1m fix and can't find someone in 3mx3m then I worry about their usefulness

The whole 1x1m fix thing is a red herring as it needs an 8 figure grid ref. At best they'll be working to a 10x10m square (6 figure ref) of where someone thinks they are. Currently the most accurate position they'll get is GPS, which needs converting anyway.

I do get their point that you really shouldn't be out on the hills without a good idea of map and compass use, but there's a lot of stupid out there.

FWIW I've downloaded both w3w and OS locate.

Indeed, one thing folks have to be aware that some of the apps which give an OS map reference do so in a format which the emergency services have difficulty interpreting. For example one I use, from the OS as it happens, gives a 10 figure reference, was aware of 8 figure references, but never come across 10 figures before. Control room understood six figures.

Here I am, or then again ... ///verifying.somebody.give

[Digga]

p4cks said:

Jobbo said:

It's only usable with an app so entirely reliant on a battery. There's no logic to it, unlike grid references where you can tell if somewhere is north-east of you; you have no idea where fondle.otters.pocket is relative to upturn.full.bucket.

So it's proprietary and not logical without a device running software. There must be some money behind it because it's being advertised fairly heavily currently but surely the only reason to spend money is for a return? I'll stick to grid refs, thanks, and simply use a map on my phone if I've got that with me.

Absolutely this. When I saw the first article a while back I was scratching my head thinking that surely if you can obtain three words from an app using the internet you can also get the grid reference or long/lat of your location.

It's nonsense.

True, which is why I put in a request to change the location of our downstairs loo to bum.willy.poo.

Still waiting to hear back on that.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

p4cks said:

Jobbo said:

It's only usable with an app so entirely reliant on a battery. There's no logic to it, unlike grid references where you can tell if somewhere is north-east of you; you have no idea where fondle.otters.pocket is relative to upturn.full.bucket.

So it's proprietary and not logical without a device running software. There must be some money behind it because it's being advertised fairly heavily currently but surely the only reason to spend money is for a return? I'll stick to grid refs, thanks, and simply use a map on my phone if I've got that with me.

Absolutely this. When I saw the first article a while back I was scratching my head thinking that surely if you can obtain three words from an app using the internet you can also get the grid reference or long/lat of your location.

It's nonsense.

You have to remember that not everyone is an experienced mountain survival expert who dominates mountains every weekend. It might be useful if you happen across an accident in a rural part and you have no idea exactly where you are. I’m tech savvy but I’m not sure I could get my grid ref in a hurry. If it catches on and anyone can use it, that’s surely a good thing, no?

[Evanivitch]

Jakg said:

Jobbo said:

here's no logic to it, unlike grid references where you can tell if somewhere is north-east of you; you have no idea where fondle.otters.pocket is relative to upturn.full.bucket.

This is, though, by design.

Imagine you live at flat 3, 26, 7 gardens road - it's easy to mixup those numbers and be very close but very lost. Or even 51.2653, -1.4316.

With this system if you do make a mistake, even a small one - you likely be thousands of miles out and it'll be very clear it's incorrect.

Exactly, the word Bank used it designed to reduce errors and obvious errors.

Providing a grid, based on either map or App, is full of human error hurdles.

[Digga]

dibbers006 said:

Let's not forget, that, within the realm of possibility, this a system a five year old could potentially use.

Hence why late middle-aged blokes are struggling with it.

[Supersam83]

Must be gaining traction as Mercedes Benz are now using it with their vehicle sat nav systems.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/innovation/what3w...

I find it quite easy and child friendly and have downloaded the app for all of us in our household.

[Lemming Train]

I have discovered from w3w that all PHers live in/on Quesnel Lake, some distance north of Kamloops in British Columbia.

[Jobbo]

OzzyR1 said:

Think this is really taking off now, especially as it has been adopted in the latest editions of the big global travel guide publishers; Fodors, Lonely Planet etc.

After the description of (say) a statue in the corner of Red Square, it now says "house.vehicle.tree" which will take you to the exact location rather than the convoluted description of how to find the thing in the preceding editions.

Brilliant, so the people using it who can't cope with a map will get to spend even longer looking at their phone screen rather than sightseeing en route.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Its not new

I've had it on my phone for a number of years.

I believe, at one point, Mercedes had it integrated into one of their SatNav systems.

I don't know why there's been this sudden advertising push. I've noticed it on pretty much every YT video I have watched lately.

For what its worth I think it has its uses and it is more handy than say, post code navigation. Plenty of places where the post code only really takes you to the general area or even the wrong place. But 3 simple words and you can be within a few meters of where you intended without having to punch some GPS coordinates in (which are just as good, just not as user friendly).

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 22 August 11:17

[karma mechanic]

Some of the places that my wife needs to visit have a postcode that doesn't really help find the car park (for a school for example, often the vehicle entrance is in a different road to the pedestrian entrance).

Looking it up in w3w and selecting the entrance to the car park gives that exact square. Then, 'Hey Mercedes, navigate to what three words word1 word2 word3' gives the options on screen. Slight variations of the words are presented, perhaps the desired location, another in China and a third in South America. Easy to pick, and the satnav really does take you to that square.

The main use case is that it works well if you are relaying the location over the phone. Standing next to a busy road it might be hard to get a grid reference transcribed correctly at the other end, and if there's an error there's no easy way for the recipient to see where it went wrong. w3w is likely to present one correct and several implausible answers based on what was entered.

[stevesingo]

Bill said:

The whole 1x1m fix thing is a red herring as it needs an 8 figure grid ref. At best they'll be working to a 10x10m square (6 figure ref) of where someone thinks they are. Currently the most accurate position they'll get is GPS, which needs converting anyway.

Are you sure?

A 4 fig grid identifies the grid square from 0-99 Eastings to 0-99 Northings. These 100km2 blocks are identified with a two letter map sheet indicator.

To sub divide the grid square in to 100m2 grids we add a number to each of the eastings and northings of the 4 fig to get a 6fig. 8 fig gives 10m resolution and 10fig gives 1m resolution.

WRT GPS, it is really only accurate to +-10m at best and that is when the receiver can see sufficient satellites. In a built up area, this is a problem and that is why mobile phones also use the wifi connection to improve accuracy.

[Bill]

stevesingo said:

Are you sure?

A 4 fig grid identifies the grid square from 0-99 Eastings to 0-99 Northings. These 100km2 blocks are identified with a two letter map sheet indicator.

To sub divide the grid square in to 100m2 grids we add a number to each of the eastings and northings of the 4 fig to get a 6fig. 8 fig gives 10m resolution and 10fig gives 1m resolution.

WRT GPS, it is really only accurate to +-10m at best and that is when the receiver can see sufficient satellites. In a built up area, this is a problem and that is why mobile phones also use the wifi connection to improve accuracy.

Sorry, you're correct. 6 figure gives a 100x100m square. FiF's 10 figure is needed for 1x1m accuracy. Or just use w3w for 3x3m.

[Jasey_]

the discussions above about the OS grid system explains it all

too.fking.complicated

[shakotan]

Saleen836 said:

Is a new app that they save can save lives, the reason I have posted it in here is the news article it is linked too....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49319760

Has common sence been lost completely now? Surely anyone with half an ounce of sence wouldn't even dream of going on a 5 mile walk in the evening without a little planning! There is a compass on the i-phone but obviously none of them know what that is for

It's cetainly not new, I've has it for a couple of years at least.

[tinytim123]

keirik said:

They're a bit daft then, as most people have absolutely no idea how to get a grid reference.

If they need a 1mx1m fix and can't find someone in 3mx3m then I worry about their usefulness

Suspect the underlying tone is 'be fully prepared & know how to read a map when going into remote areas'

Haven't hiked much in Scotland but in other parts of the country it is truly shocking how unprepared people are, and these people then call expensive mountain rescue teams out to get them, often on a shady description of their whereabouts.

Honestly I have seen idiots climbing Snowdon in flip flops, t-shirt & shorts. No drinks or anything on them.

[CrutyRammers]

FiF said:

Indeed, one thing folks have to be aware that some of the apps which give an OS map reference do so in a format which the emergency services have difficulty interpreting. For example one I use, from the OS as it happens, gives a 10 figure reference, was aware of 8 figure references, but never come across 10 figures before. Control room understood six figures.

Here I am, or then again ... ///verifying.somebody.give

Indeed, the ambulance (round here at least) won't do grid references at all, only postcodes.
There is, IMO, too much required knowledge to use the emergency services. Why do I have to know to call for police if I want mountain rescue? Why can't I use grid refs, gps co-ordinates, or whatever I have to hand for any of them? In an emergency, the last thing you need is to have to have learnt which service uses which thing and which communications networks they share. So I can see that w3w could help here.