MPs say car ownership not compatible with decarbonisation
Discussion
Wooda80 said:
Only as likely to happen as 500 households in a village all trying to use 4 petrol pumps at the same time.
Except that it takes a couple of minutes at most to refuel and people refuel when they need to or on their way to somewhere, whereas (I assume) electric cars are more likely to require charging at around the same time to be ready for the next day/journey.So not as likely at all...
Usual BBC bulls
t, get a story like this every week, the bellends at the bbc believe the Brompton bike and public transport will save the world..
Home charging an electric vehicle generated from wind power is the next step forwards. And has untold advantages, one of which being that electricity is a 10th of the cost per mile of petrol/diesel...
t, get a story like this every week, the bellends at the bbc believe the Brompton bike and public transport will save the world..Home charging an electric vehicle generated from wind power is the next step forwards. And has untold advantages, one of which being that electricity is a 10th of the cost per mile of petrol/diesel...
Edited by Foliage on Thursday 22 August 15:06
I cycle to work, in all weathers, and always have, even though I live in London, which is supposed to be a public transport utopia (it isn't).
I didn't need a car when I was in my 20s, but when kids come along and you move to an area where you can afford a family-sized home and the kids won't get mugged, you need a car. I've tried car clubs, I've tried hire cars, I've tried peer to peer rental. None of it works anywhere near as well as owning your own car, although it can be cheaper, but often isn't.
While there are better solutions to travelling around a big city than a fossil-powered 5-seater (bikes, eBikes, eMopeds, Twizy-type vehicles, even eScooters, although they are currently illegal), on the whole, people will still need to keep a proper car hanging around, and any government that tries to legislate against that will swiftly find itself out of power.
I actually welcome the review of HS2, since it was aimed at reducing working people's "dead time" on a train, but mobile working has rendered it redundant. The eleventy billion that would have been spent on HS2 can be much more usefully spent improving local rail links, which are currently infrequent, slow, crowded and expensive.
I didn't need a car when I was in my 20s, but when kids come along and you move to an area where you can afford a family-sized home and the kids won't get mugged, you need a car. I've tried car clubs, I've tried hire cars, I've tried peer to peer rental. None of it works anywhere near as well as owning your own car, although it can be cheaper, but often isn't.
While there are better solutions to travelling around a big city than a fossil-powered 5-seater (bikes, eBikes, eMopeds, Twizy-type vehicles, even eScooters, although they are currently illegal), on the whole, people will still need to keep a proper car hanging around, and any government that tries to legislate against that will swiftly find itself out of power.
I actually welcome the review of HS2, since it was aimed at reducing working people's "dead time" on a train, but mobile working has rendered it redundant. The eleventy billion that would have been spent on HS2 can be much more usefully spent improving local rail links, which are currently infrequent, slow, crowded and expensive.
Funk said:
Also on the days it's pissing with rain or snowing I can't think of anything I'd rather do less than trudge along getting cold and soaked.
And that's one of the bits they seem to miss when ever they start talking about cycling/walking and the associated infrastructure... we're coming upto autumn now, we've had a good few months of sunny/warm weather on the whole so of course lots of walking and cycling. The next six months however is liable to be a lot colder and wetter, and just watch those numbers fall.Ideally they need a plan that works year round... not just when it's warm and sunny.
BlackLabel said:
So effectively have London run by the transport unions?
Yep, that'll work.
driverless tech at level 5 will reduce congestion by virtue of being more efficient. Flexible working and virtual offices will reduce the need to travel at peak times if at all to the place of work (not all jobs of course). The knock on effect of less travel to work would be as follows.
Using Liverpool st in London as example:
all staff work remotely 3 days a week on a rolling basis
office space cut dramatically
support business cut dramatically I.e. deliveries to shops an other business
Public transport pressure cut dramatically
Over all carbon foot print of city of London falls..
course all thoes people who used to manage large office buildings, work in shops and bars, in public transport etc are now unemployed due to a greater than 50% reduction in resource needs...
Using Liverpool st in London as example:
all staff work remotely 3 days a week on a rolling basis
office space cut dramatically
support business cut dramatically I.e. deliveries to shops an other business
Public transport pressure cut dramatically
Over all carbon foot print of city of London falls..
course all thoes people who used to manage large office buildings, work in shops and bars, in public transport etc are now unemployed due to a greater than 50% reduction in resource needs...
phil4 said:
And that's one of the bits they seem to miss when ever they start talking about cycling/walking and the associated infrastructure... we're coming upto autumn now, we've had a good few months of sunny/warm weather on the whole so of course lots of walking and cycling. The next six months however is liable to be a lot colder and wetter, and just watch those numbers fall.
Ideally they need a plan that works year round... not just when it's warm and sunny.
Amsterdam is both wetter and colder than either London or Manchester. It's not the weather.Ideally they need a plan that works year round... not just when it's warm and sunny.
sjg said:
Amsterdam is both wetter and colder than either London or Manchester. It's not the weather.
The weather isn't what? Do you genuinely think that everyone in the UK will hop on a bike or walk during the winter?I don't live in London, and I'm not talking about it. I'm talking about the little slices of the rest of the UK I've lived in where there is an observable decrease in pedestrians and cyclists in winter.
sjg said:
phil4 said:
And that's one of the bits they seem to miss when ever they start talking about cycling/walking and the associated infrastructure... we're coming upto autumn now, we've had a good few months of sunny/warm weather on the whole so of course lots of walking and cycling. The next six months however is liable to be a lot colder and wetter, and just watch those numbers fall.
Ideally they need a plan that works year round... not just when it's warm and sunny.
Amsterdam is both wetter and colder than either London or Manchester. It's not the weather.Ideally they need a plan that works year round... not just when it's warm and sunny.
sjg said:
Amsterdam is both wetter and colder than either London or Manchester. It's not the weather.
It’s also considerably flatter than snowdonia or the Dales, Peak District etc etc And far far better connected
Where I lived in the northern Pennines it’s not unusual for snow to be on the ground for weeks if not months
If government led by example then perhaps they could show it works, but watching our PM getting wafted around in bullet proof 5.0 super charged Jags with the rest of convoy in equally big engines range rovers isn’t going to rally up support.
Electric car batteries don’t have longevity. When new first few charges are good, after 3-4 years range will be less and that is how it is. Battery powered cars just reminds me of wizzing around a tamiya radio control car as a kid.
Look at phones and tablets, always being charged never as good as the first month. I can’t see electric cars being a saviour.
Hybrid cars are the best solution at the moment until someone can make a safe and reliable hydrogen fuelled car.
Electric car batteries don’t have longevity. When new first few charges are good, after 3-4 years range will be less and that is how it is. Battery powered cars just reminds me of wizzing around a tamiya radio control car as a kid.
Look at phones and tablets, always being charged never as good as the first month. I can’t see electric cars being a saviour.
Hybrid cars are the best solution at the moment until someone can make a safe and reliable hydrogen fuelled car.
Rehashed from a previous comment in another thread:
MP's and academic twits who are blissfully unaware of how few of us are able to live in hermetically-sealed, cycle-friendly bubble, like they do. Less still aware of how their existence depends on the vast, daily movement of goods, services and professions.
I sometimes wish our road hauliers and other 'polluting' businesses were as militant as French farmers.
MP's and academic twits who are blissfully unaware of how few of us are able to live in hermetically-sealed, cycle-friendly bubble, like they do. Less still aware of how their existence depends on the vast, daily movement of goods, services and professions.
I sometimes wish our road hauliers and other 'polluting' businesses were as militant as French farmers.
There are nearly 40 million vehicle in the UK the vast majority being private cars
Contrary to what the Islington love in set believe most of it is actually rural or semi rural and approx 20% of the population live in remote rural areas
For many there is no viable alternatives to car ownership
Contrary to what the Islington love in set believe most of it is actually rural or semi rural and approx 20% of the population live in remote rural areas
For many there is no viable alternatives to car ownership
So a really simple question then. Do you think that the current level of growth in personal transport is sustainable, taking into account global population, road space, generally increasing population density, resource availability, and pollution?
Let's not talk about why anything isn't practical, either in technology terms or your own particular needs: let's at least see if we can agree if there is a problem or not. As, clearly, if there isn't a problem then we don't need to find a solution.
Let's not talk about why anything isn't practical, either in technology terms or your own particular needs: let's at least see if we can agree if there is a problem or not. As, clearly, if there isn't a problem then we don't need to find a solution.
I suspect the govt will see how the Low Emissions Zones do for cabs, vans and L/HGVs.
If people tow the line with that cars will be next on the agenda.
As I have said before there will be a massive black hole that we are all going to have to fill with increased taxes as fuel duty is the 4th largest earner for the government.
If people tow the line with that cars will be next on the agenda.
As I have said before there will be a massive black hole that we are all going to have to fill with increased taxes as fuel duty is the 4th largest earner for the government.
frozen-in-wiltshire said:
and when there's 500 households in a village trying to use one charger for 40 minutes at a time, how's that going to go for you?
l
Apparently there might not be any chargers or ‘widespread’ personal vehicles at all.l
“It says the government cannot achieve sufficient emissions cuts by swapping existing vehicles for cleaner versions. “
And
“In its report, the committee said: “In the long-term, widespread personal vehicle ownership does not appear to be compatible with significant decarbonisation.””
Ditch cars to meet climate change targets, say MPs https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49425402
Sounds like it’s just public transport and walking and bikes?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 22 August 16:07
Johnnytheboy said:
I run a fleet of eight diesel vans.
Once new staff have had four weeks training they are given a van and permitted to take it home if they need to go straight to a site in the morning. Presumably:
a. I'll have to pay to put a charging point in at new starters' houses before that four week training period is up? To add context people either stay in this job forever or leave in the first year.
b. Pay for a new charging point each time they move house.
c. Or make all staff come in every morning even if it makes no sense to do so.
Ours is a family firm. Rumour has it the next likely leader (current owner's son) is hot on eco stuff. So I may find out soon!
That's really easy to manage. Did you have to spoon feed them when you first issued them with laptops or mobile phones too?Once new staff have had four weeks training they are given a van and permitted to take it home if they need to go straight to a site in the morning. Presumably:
a. I'll have to pay to put a charging point in at new starters' houses before that four week training period is up? To add context people either stay in this job forever or leave in the first year.
b. Pay for a new charging point each time they move house.
c. Or make all staff come in every morning even if it makes no sense to do so.
Ours is a family firm. Rumour has it the next likely leader (current owner's son) is hot on eco stuff. So I may find out soon!
They either:
a) ensure that their vehicle is fully charged at work before leaving
or
b) charge their vehicle on their own charging point at or near home
or
c) commute into work in time to start at the agreed time like hundreds of thousands of people do every day throughout the country
Wooda80 said:
That's really easy to manage. Did you have to spoon feed them when you first issued them with laptops or mobile phones too?
They either:
a) ensure that their vehicle is fully charged at work before leaving
or
b) charge their vehicle on their own charging point at or near home
or
c) commute into work in time to start at the agreed time like hundreds of thousands of people do every day throughout the country
It takes a lot longer to charge a vehicle than it does to fill one with fuel so this might not be possble sounds liek its a haulage firm so lots of short jouneys using lots of fuel not great with existing EV tech.They either:
a) ensure that their vehicle is fully charged at work before leaving
or
b) charge their vehicle on their own charging point at or near home
or
c) commute into work in time to start at the agreed time like hundreds of thousands of people do every day throughout the country
People live in flats or have no off street parking, if everyone has an EV there will need to be a lot more charging points and perhaps leaving a works van 2 miles up the road is not viable.
Commuting is viable but it would likely impact business profit if the job involves going from one customer with goods an dropping them at another not via central office.
While I agree all your points I think EV tech is not there for people yet to make it practical.
of Course if we have level 5 driver-less tech then he will not need drivers at all an the Vans will find there own charging points. Course he an many others will be out of work which will reduce carbonfootprint but I am not sure that is what the government wants
frozen-in-wiltshire said:
and when there's 500 households in a village trying to use one charger for 40 minutes at a time, how's that going to go for you?
Rapid chargers are not really designed for daily use, they are for refilling en-route from A to B.I ran a Nissan Leaf for 2 years/18,000 miles and only used a charger away from home maybe 15 times.
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