MPs say car ownership not compatible with decarbonisation
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Electric tractors are a reality now, but perhaps not for the same reasons that everyone else needs one.
Really ? If you can splash £100K on a 400hp tractor that either lasts out in the field for just four hours, or has to be connected by umbilical cable - to a power supply within 1 km.Lily the Pink said:
Evanivitch said:
Electric tractors are a reality now, but perhaps not for the same reasons that everyone else needs one.
Really ? If you can splash £100K on a 400hp tractor that either lasts out in the field for just four hours, or has to be connected by umbilical cable - to a power supply within 1 km.Evanivitch said:
Are you suggesting that's not in reality?
Electric tractors are a joke. Pretty much the only commercial one out there is the Fendt, and that can handle 5 hours running a Tedder or similar. So that’s probably about 2 hours running a big mower or a baler.
2 hours is about 13 hours short of a working day in July/August.
With about 10 x the battery, they’d be great, unfortunately they’d weigh too much and cost half a million each.
Ziplobb said:
You can't
if you live in a rural area its a pipedream to go electric
I have a company van (derv) used daily for getting to and from work and for lugging work stuff
Missus has Golf TDI as she likes £30 year tax and 65mpg
I have R500 for pleasure
She has MX5 for sunny days
Nipper has Panda for moving him and daughter to skool (no public transport here where live Isle of Wight) and carting us to and from socials when over the limit
Nipper has Escort for hooning
Ranger for towing animals/ shooting/ any other tasks where 4x4 is required like snow or pulling an old persons Micra from a ditch by the side of road
Tractor 1 Lawn
Tractor 2 paddock etc
MiniDigger for ditiching /lifting engines out/ moving stuff that is too heavy to lift/ genral dogs body
Quad for going places where none of the above can go
look on the positive side man, when we go all electric your heating bill will drop like a stone in winter (and probably those of your immediate neighbours) due to the heat generated when charging that lot of an evening if you live in a rural area its a pipedream to go electric
I have a company van (derv) used daily for getting to and from work and for lugging work stuff
Missus has Golf TDI as she likes £30 year tax and 65mpg
I have R500 for pleasure
She has MX5 for sunny days
Nipper has Panda for moving him and daughter to skool (no public transport here where live Isle of Wight) and carting us to and from socials when over the limit
Nipper has Escort for hooning
Ranger for towing animals/ shooting/ any other tasks where 4x4 is required like snow or pulling an old persons Micra from a ditch by the side of road
Tractor 1 Lawn
Tractor 2 paddock etc
MiniDigger for ditiching /lifting engines out/ moving stuff that is too heavy to lift/ genral dogs body
Quad for going places where none of the above can go
what will multi car households in typical residential roads do ? my eldest has now bought her own home but just over a year ago we were a 5 car household that all would need charging overnight.
wc98 said:
what will multi car households in typical residential roads do ? my eldest has now bought her own home but just over a year ago we were a 5 car household that all would need charging overnight.
They're all using the full extent of the battery everyday? That would be quite unlikely, even in a 40kWh car, and Zoe, Corsa and 208 are now coming with 50kWh batteries (125-200 miles range).The Corsa/208 twins will rapid at 100kW, so you'd need to find 20 mins to take them to 80% charge state every day, if you indeed needed a significant range every day.
Evanivitch said:
wc98 said:
what will multi car households in typical residential roads do ? my eldest has now bought her own home but just over a year ago we were a 5 car household that all would need charging overnight.
They're all using the full extent of the battery everyday? That would be quite unlikely, even in a 40kWh car, and Zoe, Corsa and 208 are now coming with 50kWh batteries (125-200 miles range).The Corsa/208 twins will rapid at 100kW, so you'd need to find 20 mins to take them to 80% charge state every day, if you indeed needed a significant range every day.
A Winner Is You said:
Which would all be irrelevant as the report talks of car ownership being stopped, not just ICE vehicles.
No, it didn't.It said ownership should no longer be as widespread as it is. And that shared usership model should be considered over individual ownership.
Which in a world of improved public transport and electric mobility vehicles is entirely possible. But I'm doubtful we'll see the public transport improvements we need...
Evanivitch said:
A Winner Is You said:
Which would all be irrelevant as the report talks of car ownership being stopped, not just ICE vehicles.
No, it didn't.It said ownership should no longer be as widespread as it is.
Evanivitch said:
And that shared usership model should be considered over individual ownership.
Collectivism rules OK tvarisch! Reminds me of those scientists with poster papers at the Tyndall Centre conference who not only wrote of the path to localised hunter-gatherer societies but spoke passionately in meetings of stopping individualism. It's all about the science 
Take the 80% (rounded) who use a car and thus can leave behind the sensory joys of cattle truck collective transport and force them to breathe strangers' farts in a car. Vote winner.
turbojoke said:
Evanivitch said:
A Winner Is You said:
Which would all be irrelevant as the report talks of car ownership being stopped, not just ICE vehicles.
No, it didn't.It said ownership should no longer be as widespread as it is.
Turbojoke said:
Evanivitch said:
And that shared usership model should be considered over individual ownership.
Collectivism rules OK tvarisch! Reminds me of those scientists with poster papers at the Tyndall Centre conference who not only wrote of the path to localised hunter-gatherer societies but spoke passionately in meetings of stopping individualism. It's all about the science Take the 80% (rounded) who use a car and thus can leave behind the sensory joys of cattle truck collective transport and force them to breathe strangers' farts in a car. Vote winner.
Transport Research Laboratory: LEZ ban on cars not needed, carries a disproportionate negative impact on car owning poorer people in low income families.
Green policies hurt the poor (Spectator), Green Party flagship economic policy would hit poorest hardest (Guardian), renewable energy drives up fuel poverty (paper in Energy Research & Social Science), renewable energy increasing financial strain on lower-income families in developed countries (various academics).
Pointless progressive policies FTW.
Progressive ho ho ho.
Green policies hurt the poor (Spectator), Green Party flagship economic policy would hit poorest hardest (Guardian), renewable energy drives up fuel poverty (paper in Energy Research & Social Science), renewable energy increasing financial strain on lower-income families in developed countries (various academics).
Pointless progressive policies FTW.
Progressive ho ho ho.
If I could summon an electric car to be at my house whenever needed and at a suitable price, which would then let me sit in the back and get me from A-B it would be a dream.
Lets face it, 99% of time driving is tedious, boring and an inconvenience. The only reason people do it is because the alternative (public transport) is even more inconvenient.
The future will hopefully be a time where we don't need to own a car, but can use one cheaply and then let someone else use it. There is little point owning an everyday car which sits stationary for 23 hours out of 24.
Lets face it, 99% of time driving is tedious, boring and an inconvenience. The only reason people do it is because the alternative (public transport) is even more inconvenient.
The future will hopefully be a time where we don't need to own a car, but can use one cheaply and then let someone else use it. There is little point owning an everyday car which sits stationary for 23 hours out of 24.
Evanivitch said:
You're head is probably so far up your lower intestine you've failed to notice that car ownership amongst urban and younger people is already on the decrease, and inner city car clubs continue to grow...
they've been the next big thing in London for 20 years. What a load of BS... fblm said:
Evanivitch said:
You're head is probably so far up your lower intestine you've failed to notice that car ownership amongst urban and younger people is already on the decrease, and inner city car clubs continue to grow...
they've been the next big thing in London for 20 years. What a load of BS... 
How does London compare with Hong Kong in terms of next big things?! EVs are a next big thing iirc. I suspect some Londoners have more true belief than this (below).
Tesla sales in HK fell to zero in 2017 after subsidies were removed and have remained at that impressive level ever since.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-hong-kong-sale...
Seeing this obvious consequence clearly means my sight is not colonically challenged, meanwhile the choice not to bathe in the colonic atmosphere of strangers on collectivist transport (comrade) or car shares is one I will vote to keep and I expect many others will as well. Each to their own
as they say.
Condi said:
Lets face it, 99% of time driving is tedious, boring and an inconvenience.
Not so, IMVHO.The environment in which you drive (say, a city) will be, but even then the "right" car will make the journey certainly less tiresome. I would imagine a city trip in a Lexus would be largely relaxing in the same way the same journey would be less so in a Perodua Kenari.
If the time comes where there is a bus or train that stops right outside my house, and gets me to my destination at the time I want to be there (ie. not having to arrive 45 minutes early with the only other option being 10 minutes late), where I’m 100% guaranteed a seat, there’s nobody eating an egg sandwich or listening to s
t music with their armpit in my face, that’s on time and doesn’t turn into a mobile drunk tank after 10pm, that doesn’t require me to get piss wet walking to stand under a plastic shed and wait, that I can load all my shopping into and will take me to the tip with an old couch on the roof then I might consider giving up the car. Until then they can ps off.
t music with their armpit in my face, that’s on time and doesn’t turn into a mobile drunk tank after 10pm, that doesn’t require me to get piss wet walking to stand under a plastic shed and wait, that I can load all my shopping into and will take me to the tip with an old couch on the roof then I might consider giving up the car. Until then they can ps off.Condi said:
Lets face it, 99% of time driving is tedious, boring and an inconvenience.
Sounds like anti-car parroted propaganda. A London-bound politician walking to and from their flipped home might believe it.
The small percentage when this could be accurate refers to that aspect of driving "which has been made tedious and unpleasant deliberately" as engineered by car-hating pen pushers who are naive enough to think they're saving the planet by attacking and bad-mouthing a large majority of the travelling public.
That's not what a lot of drivers use their cars for and certainly not on PH but at times it can't be avoided.
Possibly you won't recall "The Ninth Report - Integrated Transport White Paper" from years gone by, maybe you were too young
This advocated a raft of measures designed to obstruct car use and make individual transport unpleasant, many of which have already been implemented.
and from their
Motorists charged for driving to out of town superstores and leisure developments
Motorists charged for driving into and in town centres
Motorists charged when they reach their destination via removal of free parking areas
Motorists charged for workplace parking
Motorists charged for using their cars in developments on the edges of towns
Motorists funneled onto main routes (by road closures, road narroWing and one-way schemes) ahead of deeply unpopular road pricing (still too unpopular to introduce)
More emphasis on "reallocating road space" away from cars (creating more congestion to blame on motorits)
Forbidding the development of adequate parking places where people want them including new homes via planning guidelines
Local authorities urged to extend "decriminalised" parking allowing for money grabbing schemes and more congestion as drivers circulate looking for parking
No! Driving is still a matter of personal freedom, a source of pleasure, good for health, vital for the economy and is still the mode of choice for the majority of journeys in spite of the draconian and revenue-raising methods used to target drivers.
foxbody-87 said:
If the time comes where there is a bus or train that stops right outside my house, and gets me to my destination at the time I want to be there (ie. not having to arrive 45 minutes early with the only other option being 10 minutes late), where I’m 100% guaranteed a seat, there’s nobody eating an egg sandwich or listening to st music with their armpit in my face, that’s on time and doesn’t turn into a mobile drunk tank after 10pm, that doesn’t require me to get piss wet walking to stand under a plastic shed and wait, that I can load all my shopping into and will take me to the tip with an old couch on the roof then I might consider giving up the car. Until then they can ps off.
That makes sense t music with their armpit in my face, that’s on time and doesn’t turn into a mobile drunk tank after 10pm, that doesn’t require me to get piss wet walking to stand under a plastic shed and wait, that I can load all my shopping into and will take me to the tip with an old couch on the roof then I might consider giving up the car. Until then they can ps off. well said.Collective cattle truck transport (which you covered so well above) outside London was described in the Audit Commission review/report "All Aboard" as a costly, disjointed and unreliable shambles...it works reasonably well in London but elsewhere is 'good' only for taking a limited number of people from one of a fixed and limited number of locations to another similar fixed location at a limited series of fixed times via afixed route (when there isn't a strike). When it 'works' it can still be very inconvenient and a deeply unpleasant experience.
It's an abysmal alternative to the car in most places, currently benefiting from the brute force of transport fascism (diktats and subsidies, naturally).
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