80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany

[Eric Mc]

Another way to protect the underside of a bomber was a "Bath Tub" position. These weren't so common but featured on the Heinkel He111 and early versions of the B-17. The Hampden had something similar -

I know it's a model but it shows clearly the underneath gun on the 111 -



Early B-17 -



Handley Page Hampden -

[Eric Mc]

Cantaloupe said:

Did parliament vote on this declaration of war, was there a mandate from the people for such a important decision ?
A hasty move IMO

We had referenda back then I think.

I think that there was a War Cabinet. Parliamentary scrutiny in war time is fraught with contradiction. Certainly, many aspects of wartime policies and decisions were questioned at numerous times in Parliament between 1939 and 1945 - but key operational decisions were usually made by the Cabinet behind closed doors - for security reasons, of course.

Referenda are not part of way a Parliamentary Democracy works. In UK politics, they are called at the whim of a government. They are not normally required.

[Eric Mc]

Penelope Stopit said:

Thank you for the information about the bombers

I've never seen a Wellington structure, and didn't know they were Aluminium

Would you happen to know where the Aluminium came from?

Probably Canada and the US.

[Eric Mc]

Yes - a trip to Brooklands will give you a lot of understanding of the Wellington and its designer, Barnes Wallis (as well as all the other stuff he did during the war).
The only other surviving Wellington is owned by the RAF Museum. It's currently at their restoration facility in Cosford being completely restored and recovered. It'll be there for a few years yet.

I agree, WW2 is a vast topic but having a dedicated thread tracking each day through the war I thought would be a good way to allow people to see how the war progressed and how events rolled out in a chronological sequence. It might also allow people to appreciate the time gaps (often very short) between events.

[Eric Mc]

Just to let people know, I will be ignoring carping from the sidelines but will continue to post updates as promised as others seem to be interested in the concept of this thread.

[Eric Mc]

From what I understand, there had been a large and rapid expansion of "reserve" elements to the Army, Navy and Air Force in the 1930s which allowed for the relatively small number of regulars on the books in 1939 to be rapidly augmented by reservists . In fact, the RAF had so many reservists that when they all reported for assignment or further training, they couldn't be processed fast enough.

Eric "Winkle" Brown, the famous test pilot, decided that he wasn't prepared to hang around waiting for the RAF to allocate him a place in a squadron so he promptly wandered down to the Royal Navy office and signed up to the Fleet Air Arm, which wasn't so inundated with pilots.

[Eric Mc]

Apart from the (fairly rare) occasions when the occupant was trapped in a stuck turret, the ball turret was one of the safer places to be on a B-17 as it was an armoured sphere.

The B-17 was most vulnerable to a frontal attack. Over the course of its development, more and more forward firing guns were added to the B-17, ultimately leading to the remote controlled chin turret seen on the G models.

[Eric Mc]

Hee hee - I'd be up for that. Although it's not quite the same experience as doing it at 25,000 feet over Germany, buried within your electrically heated, heavy, flying suit, boots and gloves, wearing an oxygen mask and being shot at by flak and fighters.

[Eric Mc]

How long was he based in NI - and where did he go to next?

[Eric Mc]

XCP said:

Pass. I'd have to check. I have most of his papers. I know he landed in Normandy a few days after D Day and fought in France and Holland where he was wounded. Ended up in an RMP unit guarding POW's due to injuries.

My impression was the stationing of additional British troops to NI was more of an exercise in deterring any possible incursion into NI by soldiers of Éire. When that threat didn't materialise (it was never likely, to be honest), many of those troops would have been withdrawn quite quickly and reallocated.

It would be interesting to know what he was up to in the period between NI and D-Day.

Interestingly, although Éire decided to be neutral in this "European War", the Irish Army also mobilised its army and called up its reserves. Again, this was not due to fear of a German invasion but fear that the British might attempt to re-occupy some of their old military bases - especially the naval base in Cork. Ironically, even though Éire had been independent of the UK since 1922, the Royal Navy still had their naval bases in Ireland (called the "Treaty Ports") and only withdrew from these bases in April 1938. How short sighted was that?

When war broke out, the British government inquired if there was any chance that the Royal Navy could regain access to those Treaty Ports. You can guess what the answer was.

[Eric Mc]

Wills2 said:

aeropilot said:

If you are in the USA, you can have a go in a live one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_TaK0WZj2k

I hope there are no hikers on that ridge....

If they're Mexicans, you probably get a few extra free shots.

[Eric Mc]

Makes you appreciate what that generation lived through and should double our resolve to make sure it never happens again. Sadly, I'm not as optimistic on that score as I used to be.

[Eric Mc]

Today 80 years ago -

Germany continued to make progress through Poland winning a number of battles as it pushed the Polish Army back.

A British freighter, the SS Bosnia, was sunk by U-47 becoming the first British cargo ship to be lost in the war.

The US officially stated its policy of neutrality in this conflict.

[Eric Mc]

Was it Prien?

[Eric Mc]

He got off to a good start then.

[Eric Mc]

Good stuff. This is how I was hoping the thread would develop. People know all sorts of bits and pieces about World War 2 and this thread is an opportunity for them to share their knowledge.

Keep it up.

[Eric Mc]

My model club was given a talk a couple of months ago by a German historian in which he emphasised how Hitler squandered resources investing in large capital ships instead of building more U-Boats.

[Eric Mc]

Hitler liked the idea of his subordinates competing against each other for resources. It tied in with his thinking that the best would rise to the top. In reality it resulted in conflicting government departments and poor lines of demarcation as to was responsible for what. It was a key factor in Germany's overall inefficiency in managing the war.

[Eric Mc]

Zirconia said:

He was also influenced by whoever was ascendant at the time.

Part of the same mind set. If someone was ascendant, then they were beating their opponent and obviously deserved to be rewarded by access to The Fuhrer's ear.

[Eric Mc]

so called said:

Cant read all of this thread at work but looking forward to this evening.
It feels strange to think that I was born only 13 years after the end of WW2.
At the same time the memories of older peoples emotions and many of the games we played as kids were all about the war.
Watching World at War (the first time round) and my Dad commenting from his experiences only a few short years before.

Very interesting.

Our generation grew up surrounded by the lore of World War 2 - whether it was reading war stories in comics, watching Hollywood blockbuster war movies or building Airfix Spitfires and Messerschmitts. It was still real, live and very fresh history.