80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany
Discussion
I was listening to a bbc podcast about the invasion of Poland. Frightening how quickly the atrocities started.
Right from the start, mass executions of politicians and officers and teachers etc. Plus the sending of Jews etc to the camps. Straight away it was about getting rid of people in positions of responsibility and dismantling of the country as a nation.
Poland lost 20-25% of the population in ww2.
Interesting also that the Poles had to use ineffective defensive plans initially for show, to encourage France and the U.K. to join the war, by showing they were fighting the Germans from the start, instead of immediately falling back and consolidating more effective defensive positions by rivers etc.
Right from the start, mass executions of politicians and officers and teachers etc. Plus the sending of Jews etc to the camps. Straight away it was about getting rid of people in positions of responsibility and dismantling of the country as a nation.
Poland lost 20-25% of the population in ww2.
Interesting also that the Poles had to use ineffective defensive plans initially for show, to encourage France and the U.K. to join the war, by showing they were fighting the Germans from the start, instead of immediately falling back and consolidating more effective defensive positions by rivers etc.
France and Britain more or less sold the Poles down the river - and continued to do so many times during the war - and after the war too.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
Eric Mc said:
France and Britain more or less sold the Poles down the river - and continued to do so many times during the war - and after the war too.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
I remember even reading after the war poles who fought in the Battle of Britain etc complaining they weren’t allowed to be involved in victory celebrations and other parades.I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
Eric Mc said:
Wills2 said:
Bagsy not to be in that bin......
Dustbin turrets appeared on a few designs around that time. The more advanced (just) Junkers 86 had one as had early versions of the British Whitley.They were eventually abandoned on the basis that the drag and weight penalty negated completely the dubious value of the defence they provided. Consequently, the vast bulk of the British heavy bombers built later lacked adequate ventral defence - something exploited by German night fighters later in the war.
Toaster said:
If it wasn't for the Polish Mathematicians, it would have been extremely unlikely we would have been able to break the encryption the Germans used.
That is very true too. In fact, the Poles had been cracking German codes since the mid 1930s - not that it helped them much 80 years ago.
Eric Mc said:
France and Britain more or less sold the Poles down the river - and continued to do so many times during the war - and after the war too.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
British and French declaration of war 3 September, the battle effectively over in Poland mid to late September. It is rather questionable what aid the allies could have provided in that time that would have made any difference to the outcome of the battle, bearing in mind elements of the German army had already reached the outskirts of Warsaw on 8 September. I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
As for what came post war the realities of who occupied a country were of major importance. That is why British forces rushed to take Greece first.
Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 4th September 12:48
Eric Mc said:
The Americans came up with their own, more sophisticated version, the Sperry Ball Turret. I'm not sure I'd want to be squeezed into one of those either -
Some pretty nasty ball turret stories.https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/story-of-her...
El stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
The Americans came up with their own, more sophisticated version, the Sperry Ball Turret. I'm not sure I'd want to be squeezed into one of those either -
Some pretty nasty ball turret stories.https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/story-of-her...
Mean while on the ground, my great uncle arrived at his regimental depot. He was a pre war regular joining the Army in 1928. He was a reservist in 1939 and was recalled on 3rd September to the South Wales Borderers depot at Brecon. All the way from Balham in south London. I often wonder what his thoughts were at the time.
Another way to protect the underside of a bomber was a "Bath Tub" position. These weren't so common but featured on the Heinkel He111 and early versions of the B-17. The Hampden had something similar -
I know it's a model but it shows clearly the underneath gun on the 111 -
Early B-17 -
Handley Page Hampden -
I know it's a model but it shows clearly the underneath gun on the 111 -
Early B-17 -
Handley Page Hampden -
Toaster said:
If it wasn't for the Polish Mathematicians, it would have been extremely unlikely we would have been able to break the encryption the Germans used.
Their path to the UK almost ended in disaster with the French but that was late 39 early 40? The story is quite fraught and a near miss and the book I have on this missing at the moment.However. Worth taking note of the Bletchley Park Podcasts. Over 90 of them now and very interesting and informative.
Cantaloupe said:
Did parliament vote on this declaration of war, was there a mandate from the people for such a important decision ?
A hasty move IMO
We had referenda back then I think.
I think that there was a War Cabinet. Parliamentary scrutiny in war time is fraught with contradiction. Certainly, many aspects of wartime policies and decisions were questioned at numerous times in Parliament between 1939 and 1945 - but key operational decisions were usually made by the Cabinet behind closed doors - for security reasons, of course.A hasty move IMO
We had referenda back then I think.
Referenda are not part of way a Parliamentary Democracy works. In UK politics, they are called at the whim of a government. They are not normally required.
El stovey said:
Eric Mc said:
France and Britain more or less sold the Poles down the river - and continued to do so many times during the war - and after the war too.
I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
I remember even reading after the war poles who fought in the Battle of Britain etc complaining they weren’t allowed to be involved in victory celebrations and other parades.I'm amazed that Poland still has great affection for the UK after the way they were more or less abandoned to their fate - under both Hitler and, later, Stalin.
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