80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany
Discussion
Zirconia said:
Interesting comment on that policeman , anecdotal and I was around 15 at the time (me listening to the tale that is).
nicked a boat from a fishing village, after getting to Dunkirk and thinking sod this, whilst rowing out the Belgians all came out shooting (shot guns n stuff), they assumed to give the appearance of doing something and the Germans were not far away if not in the village perimeter. Held no malice towards them and they did get picked up by a destroyer not far from a mine field.
Which for years had me pondering how come. Until this.
https://twitter.com/Sweepers3945/status/1265538422...
Yes, AIUI the longer route, whilst avoiding the minefields, took the boats along the coast straight past the Germans who had got as far as Nieuwpoort by then. I believe it was still the most-used route during the evacuation, and from his description which you'll see on the 30th, probably the one my Grandfather took.nicked a boat from a fishing village, after getting to Dunkirk and thinking sod this, whilst rowing out the Belgians all came out shooting (shot guns n stuff), they assumed to give the appearance of doing something and the Germans were not far away if not in the village perimeter. Held no malice towards them and they did get picked up by a destroyer not far from a mine field.
Which for years had me pondering how come. Until this.
https://twitter.com/Sweepers3945/status/1265538422...
Halmyre said:
Ayahuasca said:
Eric Mc said:
Ayahuasca said:
Boats? Boats?
I assume you mean the little ships?
I believe they were called for on the 27th of May.
When is a boat not a boat?I assume you mean the little ships?
I believe they were called for on the 27th of May.
And when is a boat a ship?
I think by common convention the famous Dunkirk watercraft of limited size are known as little ships.
Regardless of what they were called they became another part of the British National Story some of whose other chapters are King Arthur, Boudicca, Agincourt, the Spanish Armada, Trafalgar and Waterloo, all of which (maybe with the exception of Trafalgar) have a bit of myth woven into the facts.
CambsBill said:
80 years ago today and my Grandad's unit are put into the front line to cover the start if the evacuation of the BEF.
Once again, a surreal observation - this time a farm girl running out to milk the cows in the middle of a pitched battle . . .
Loving these daily updates. Once again, a surreal observation - this time a farm girl running out to milk the cows in the middle of a pitched battle . . .
For those interested I can recommend the ‘We have ways’ podcast which is covering each days events all of this week.
kowalski655 said:
The Defiants could have contributed a load of scrap metal...after being shot down
An interesting article in the Times on Tuesday quoted from Defiant: The Untold Story of the Battle of Britain, by Robert Verkaik. Apparently a Defiant squadron (264) still holds the record for shooting down the most enemy aircraft in one day, on May 29, 1940, during the evacuation of Dunkirk. These are listed as 2 ME 109s, 15 ME 110s and 1 Ju 87 during the first sortie, and further Ju 87s and Ju 88 during the second sortie. A total of 38 German aircraft without the loss of a single Defiant.It further lists the kills per squadron during the Dunkirk evacuation as being 6.8 for the Hurricane, 7.5 for the Spitfire and 53 for the Defiant. It's also claimed that it acquitted itself quite well during the Battle of Britain, with considerable loss of aircrew, and went on to become the most successful RAf night fighter.
I'll leave it for the acknowledged experts on here to argue this out, but it seems more than a little unfair to be quite so dismissive of the Defiant.
ettore said:
Zirconia said:
The massacre of surrendered soldiers by the SS today.
The second massacre - there were two. First was yesterday. I’ve been to one of the sites - heartbreaking.It beggars belief that people who would be considered normal by their families and others buy into a cult to such an extent that they lose their humanity.
Edited by Europa1 on Thursday 28th May 21:03
Mort7 said:
An interesting article in the Times on Tuesday quoted from Defiant: The Untold Story of the Battle of Britain, by Robert Verkaik. Apparently a Defiant squadron (264) still holds the record for shooting down the most enemy aircraft in one day, on May 29, 1940, during the evacuation of Dunkirk. These are listed as 2 ME 109s, 15 ME 110s and 1 Ju 87 during the first sortie, and further Ju 87s and Ju 88 during the second sortie. A total of 38 German aircraft without the loss of a single Defiant.
It further lists the kills per squadron during the Dunkirk evacuation as being 6.8 for the Hurricane, 7.5 for the Spitfire and 53 for the Defiant. It's also claimed that it acquitted itself quite well during the Battle of Britain, with considerable loss of aircrew, and went on to become the most successful RAf night fighter.
I'll leave it for the acknowledged experts on here to argue this out, but it seems more than a little unfair to be quite so dismissive of the Defiant.
Well if we can trust wikepedia. The issue was the turret which gave some advantage using some tactics but was a weakness for others. It further lists the kills per squadron during the Dunkirk evacuation as being 6.8 for the Hurricane, 7.5 for the Spitfire and 53 for the Defiant. It's also claimed that it acquitted itself quite well during the Battle of Britain, with considerable loss of aircrew, and went on to become the most successful RAf night fighter.
I'll leave it for the acknowledged experts on here to argue this out, but it seems more than a little unfair to be quite so dismissive of the Defiant.
Wikepedia said:
The Defiant was initially successful against enemy aircraft and its best day was 29 May, when No. 264 Squadron claimed 37 kills in two sorties: 19 Ju 87 Stukas, mostly picked off as they came out of their dives, nine Messerschmitt Bf 110 twin-engined heavy fighters, eight Bf 109s and a Ju-88; one Defiant gunner was lost after he bailed out, although the aircraft made it back to its base to be repaired.[22] On 31 May, seven Defiants were lost in one day.[22]
Luftwaffe fighters suffered losses when "bouncing" flights of Defiants from the rear, apparently mistaking them for Hurricanes.[24] The German pilots were unaware of the Defiant's rear-firing armament and encountered concentrated defensive fire. The Luftwaffe changed tactics, to outmanoeuvre the Defiant and attack from below or dead ahead, where the turret guns offered no defence. Defiant losses quickly mounted, particularly among the gunners, who were often unable to leave stricken aircraft. The additional weight of the turret and the second crewman plus the aerodynamic drag gave the Defiant a lower performance than conventional single-seat fighter aircraft.
Luftwaffe fighters suffered losses when "bouncing" flights of Defiants from the rear, apparently mistaking them for Hurricanes.[24] The German pilots were unaware of the Defiant's rear-firing armament and encountered concentrated defensive fire. The Luftwaffe changed tactics, to outmanoeuvre the Defiant and attack from below or dead ahead, where the turret guns offered no defence. Defiant losses quickly mounted, particularly among the gunners, who were often unable to leave stricken aircraft. The additional weight of the turret and the second crewman plus the aerodynamic drag gave the Defiant a lower performance than conventional single-seat fighter aircraft.
ettore said:
Zirconia said:
The massacre of surrendered soldiers by the SS today.
The second massacre - there were two. First was yesterday. I’ve been to one of the sites - heartbreaking.Europa1 said:
One of them was referred t in one of the documentaries they've been running on BBC2 this week. To my embarrassment, I'd had no idea that the SS was being that inhuman towards the western Allies that early in the war.
It beggars belief that people who would be considered normal by their families and others buy into a cult to such an extent that they lose their humanity.
Keep meaning to catchup on them. Seen a few so far but not all, there is another recommended by someone on here, I should book mark them.It beggars belief that people who would be considered normal by their families and others buy into a cult to such an extent that they lose their humanity.
Edited by Europa1 on Thursday 28th May 21:03
Worth a look.
https://twitter.com/Sweepers3945
At the moment hearts played at Dunkirk by mine sweepers.
https://twitter.com/Sweepers3945
At the moment hearts played at Dunkirk by mine sweepers.
Eric Mc said:
Ayahuasca said:
80 years ago today.
Spitfire N3200 flown by Geoffrey Stephenson lands on the beach at Dunkirk. Shown (sort of) in the movie Dunkirk.
And restored.
I've seen it up close a number of times. It's gorgeous. Here's a picture I took last year - Spitfire N3200 flown by Geoffrey Stephenson lands on the beach at Dunkirk. Shown (sort of) in the movie Dunkirk.
And restored.
31st May 1940, the day my grandfather landed safely back in England on the Lord Howe, together with most of his unit. Also, therefore, the last pages of his report on the campaign - hope it was of interest to some.
And this is the Lord Howe, the Lowestoft drifter that brought them back
And this is the Lord Howe, the Lowestoft drifter that brought them back
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