Election 2019

[chrispmartha]

Vanden Saab said:

chrispmartha said:

petemurphy said:

abzmike said:

Very sneaky. I hope the Electoral Commission rip them a new one.

It says 3 times on it cchq so if people are too stupid to notice maybe they shouldn’t be voting

You’re presuming people automatically know what CCHQ means, it’s a sneaky tactic and they are quite rightly being called out on it

You are not seriously suggesting that people would use a fact checking service without checking who was doing the fact checking are you?

Its not a fact checking service its a twitter name.

Are you seriously suggesting people aren’t easily led by Social Media?

I’ve been misled by It as we are all fallible, the conservatives know people are misled by it and it’s a sneaky tactic.

[W12GT]

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

[jakesmith]

W12GT said:

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

[Tuna]

W12GT said:

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

It's not Corbyn I'm worried about - it's McDonnell. The kindly grandpa act conceals the fact that he hangs out with some dangerous individuals - who definitely don't have a "good heart".

[Herr Schnell]

W12GT said:

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

Corbyn told an absolute monster of a lie when asked about antisemitism, hopefully the press will pick up on it tomorrow as it was absolutely mad to think he can get away with saying what he did.

https://twitter.com/_petermason/status/11968985154...

Even if you don't care about Jews, as it depressingly seems most Labour voters don't, then ask yourself how can you trust a word he said given that he's lied so spectacularly about something so easily disproven?

[JuanCarlosFandango]

W12GT said:

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

That's a noble sentiment and one I understand. I understood it more in 2017 and considered voting Labour for the first time in my life. Briefly.

What you have to remember is that it wouldn't end up as you giving up a few little luxuries so that orphans have teddy bears and veterans can turn their heaters on. It would end up with mountains of debt being paid for by low and medium paid workers long after the money you sacrificed had been squandered on rubbish. And the answer would always be more tax, more government and more taxing the rich.

I agree his performance was better on the whole, but there was, as usual a give away moment. Corbyn lights up when it comes to taxing rich people. I am convinced that it is more important to him than actually improving the lot of the poor. And of course the rich is an ever moving, growing target. They would tax the teddy bears and the veteran's heaters before admitting that their economics do not work.

All that would be lumped in with the nasty, divisive identity politics that has served Corbyn so well and a fudging of Brexit that would create a rift which I think would not heal in my lifetime. Despite the fact that Corbyn himself has never believed in EU membership.

[pingu393]

W12GT said:

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

I could understand someone with a garage like yours voting for New Labour, but I am puzzled why anyone with your wealth would want to vote for a party that would result in you having a garage like mine instead.

Just remember that I will probably still have my garage, the same as yours will be, but will have earned a damn site less to get it .

Corbyn thinks that's fair - do you?

[dimots]

jakesmith said:

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

You sound like a right tt.

I’ll be voting Corbyn too. It might cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds in extra taxation but at least I’ll live in a humane country.

[W12GT]

jakesmith said:

W12GT said:

I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.

But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.

Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.

I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.

For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

Without wishing to get into an argument I have to disagree emphatically with your paragraph about entrepreneurship, small businesses etc. The reason? IR35. It never really carried much weight until recently; come April 2020 everyone running small businesses WILL me massively affected by it. And I’m talking significant increases in your tax/NI. The torrid have already suppressed and damaged the small businesses. They’ve allowed big businesses to dominate and make it hard to be competitive.

Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.

[Helicopter123]

dimots said:

jakesmith said:

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

You sound like a right tt.

I’ll be voting Corbyn too. It might cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds in extra taxation but at least I’ll live in a humane country.

I’m in a similar quandary in that I like quite a lot of what Corbyn has to say, and I do want to live in a fairer more just country. I’m just not sure I want to take the tax hit, which would be significant.

[jakesmith]

dimots said:

jakesmith said:

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

You sound like a right tt.

I’ll be voting Corbyn too. It might cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds in extra taxation but at least I’ll live in a humane country.

Firstly thanks for your kind words, the use of personal insults and swearing always mark of a brilliant debater

As a Jew I have not found Corbyn’s stewardship of the once mighty Labour Party particularly humane, and I am far from alone in this but I guess you can overlook his and his party’s massive racism in the interest of greater humanity. Nor do I find the outcome of various communist regimes in history to be particularly humane what with 10’s of millions of people starved or murdered by the regime, by people who McDonnell stands under banners of. But again, that’s all fine.

You’re certainly right about being relieved of hundreds of thousands of pounds though through extra tax though

Of course there’s nothing stopping you giving away some of your money to make society more humane now, you don’t need to wait for a communist dystopia to arrive

Also on a point of detail unless you live in Islington North you will not have the option of ‘voting for Corbyn’

[pingu393]

Helicopter123 said:

dimots said:

jakesmith said:

I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing

You sound like a right tt.

I’ll be voting Corbyn too. It might cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds in extra taxation but at least I’ll live in a humane country.

I’m in a similar quandary in that I like quite a lot of what Corbyn has to say, and I do want to live in a fairer more just country. I’m just not sure I want to take the tax hit, which would be significant.

Does it take the Government to tell you to share your wealth? If you are happy to give your wealth away, is it not better to choose where to give it?

If you knew that you had the opportunity to take on another contract, but it would only be at half your normal rate, would you take it on? This is the future under Corbyn if you are earning six figures or more. It's similar to the situation that consultants are in at the moment, but is deliberate, rather than accidental.

[luweewu]

jonny142 said:

I treat every thing as fake unless .... .....

How is this different to an "indepentdant" guardian fact check

[dazwalsh]

I am actually all for the outline policies of a sensible labour government, fairer society, properly funded services yadda yadda but I cannot believe anyone with an ounce of common sense cant see the destruction they are potentially about to unleash on the country. It will be economic suicide.

Corporation tax back up in high 20's%, despite rising receipts, an eye watering amount to nationalise water, railways, royal mail, the entire fricken broadband network and put every other ISP out of business, rises in the minimum wage, wiping university fees, perhaps even all student debt, 4 day working week! Forcing landlords to sell their properties to tenants below market rent, skimming 20% off the top of every company with more than 250 employees and pocketing it. Promising seemingly every area of society loads of free st.

We are no longer talking billions we are well into trillion + there, with numerous sectors in complete disarray, foreign investment heading for the hills, the rich packing their bags and sticking 2 fingers up, tipping an already fragile economy quite possibly into a nasty recession.

I have probably left out many of their batst crazy ideas but they all revolve around a hatred of one ANYONE with a few quid in their pocket. I cant remember a labour government so hell bent on destruction. It's genuinely quite scary and as for it all being properly costed, what a crock of shyte.

Edited by dazwalsh on Wednesday 20th November 00:19

[Crafty_]

The problem is that whilst some of Labour's policies are iffy and several of the front bench are definately not a strong point what have Boris & co to offer ?

"Not being Corbyn" is a weak position before it gets trotted out.

Other than recite "get brexit done" Boris doesn't appear to have a plan. Inevitably there will be a economical effect when we come out and trade deals are still in the air for who knows how long. Whats the plan to stop the economy stalling ?

Build 40 new hospitals he said, what we have is half a dozen getting a refurb in what is apparently "the first round", no structure or plan for the rest.

This one got rolled out earlier this year, whats the status on it ? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/bo... or has Boris forgotten ? funny how that one has gone quiet eh.

We'll cut corporation tax, err, actually no we wont

We'll ban fracking! well, err, maybe anyway https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/b...

Even Javid gets in on it, maybe or maybe we won't reverse stamp duty https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/18/s...

So what exactly is the message they want to give and the plan ?

Boris is winging it.

Frankly I don't see a reason to vote for either party at a national level.

YouGov poll on the debate is split 51/49 in Johnson's favour. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...

You have to ask yourself, if Labour are even half as bad as some here make out, why couldn't Johnson convince viewers ?

I really don't see any way that things are going to improve with any of this lot.

[dandarez]

None of you will be voting for Corbyn or Boris, unless you live in their constituency. Most constituencies won't make a ha'penth of difference, it will be the marginals - if you live in one of those then your vote is important and you may/could help swing it one way or another.

Not sure where it comes on the list of results in, but I will be watching out for Ashfield in Nottingham. Labour won in 2017 with just a few hundred votes. I'd never vote Labour simply because of Momentum activists. Look into what's been going on in Ashfield - an ex-miner, who first went down the pits at 18, Labour through and through, treated like dirt by Momentum bullies when they found out he'd voted 'Leave'.

Labour (Gloria De Piero, but she's now stood down) hold the seat with just ...441 votes!
This will be close.

Oh, the ex-miner, Labour guy...
He's the new Tory candidate.

Good luck mate!

[dazwalsh]

Crafty_ said:

The problem is that whilst some of Labour's policies are iffy and several of the front bench are definately not a strong point what have Boris & co to offer ?

"Not being Corbyn" is a weak position before it gets trotted out.

Other than recite "get brexit done" Boris doesn't appear to have a plan. Inevitably there will be a economical effect when we come out and trade deals are still in the air for who knows how long. Whats the plan to stop the economy stalling ?

Build 40 new hospitals he said, what we have is half a dozen getting a refurb in what is apparently "the first round", no structure or plan for the rest.

This one got rolled out earlier this year, whats the status on it ? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/bo... or has Boris forgotten ? funny how that one has gone quiet eh.

We'll cut corporation tax, err, actually no we wont

We'll ban fracking! well, err, maybe anyway https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/latest-news/b...

Even Javid gets in on it, maybe or maybe we won't reverse stamp duty https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/18/s...

So what exactly is the message they want to give and the plan ?

Boris is winging it.

Frankly I don't see a reason to vote for either party at a national level.

YouGov poll on the debate is split 51/49 in Johnson's favour. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...

You have to ask yourself, if Labour are even half as bad as some here make out, why couldn't Johnson convince viewers ?

I really don't see any way that things are going to improve with any of this lot.

agreed the tories are in no better shape with Boris at the helm, but I think when you compare the two parties purely economic responsibility the tories do a better job, it's just a shame that every time he opens his mouth it's either insensitive or bullst.

Both as bad as each other and it's an utterly miserable state of affairs even putting brexit aside, depressing to have to chose between the best of the worst, but then again the alternatives are not all that cracking either.

[otolith]

I’m amused at the support some of the ostentatiously wealthy on here have for Momentum’s Labour - the people behind Corbyn utterly despise you. They think that you are scum. They think your wealth is immoral. They would gladly take it away from you even if it benefitted nobody else. This is not Blair’s Labour.

It doesn’t matter whether you vote for them or not, there aren’t enough of you to make a difference, but be under no illusion that these people respect you.

[Kolbenkopp]

otolith said:

It doesn’t matter whether you vote for them or not, there aren’t enough of you to make a difference, but be under no illusion that these people respect you.

But is it different for any of the other parties?

[otolith]

Kolbenkopp said:

But is it different for any of the other parties?

Is what any different? The contempt for the wealthy?