Poll: Election 2019
Total Members Polled: 1601
Discussion
Helicopter123 said:
dimots said:
jakesmith said:
I think the naivety is in you, someone who is clearly from your garage, very successful, thinking that Corbyn is trustworthy, someone who would only 'probably' take money out of your pocket.
More likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet f
k all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing
You sound like a right tMore likely he would make your life as you live it now impossible. People like you would be the low hanging fruit that he would come after in the interest of smashing capitalism and the rich.
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet f
k all in the tax take to help the less well offAnd the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing
t.I’ll be voting Corbyn too. It might cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds in extra taxation but at least I’ll live in a humane country.
A fairer more just country?
A country where jews want to get out as soon as possible if jc wins.
3 in 10 people must bury their head in the sand to vote labour.
Why can’t a party come up and say that they will make public transport so attractive, efficient and cheap that people will WANT to leave their cars behind. Oh wait, they want more tax to do that, end result will still be nothing. Then it will be more and more tax.
People who say that a certain party wants to help the poor, it’s BS, if you increase the taxes on fossil fuels or natural gas or implement more regulations it will still hurt the poor while trying to hurt the rich.
People who say that a certain party wants to help the poor, it’s BS, if you increase the taxes on fossil fuels or natural gas or implement more regulations it will still hurt the poor while trying to hurt the rich.
W12GT said:
I’ve never liked Corbyn. Ever. I’ve never voted Labour.
But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.
Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.
I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.
For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.
With a garage like yours, I don’t think money being taken out of your pocket will feel like much. Although I do think he means well but he’s naive. But to me he came across as a better PM. He was disciplined, professional, kept his cool and seemed genuinely like he cares about the nation and the people. If I had to work for one of them he’d be the one I’d trust to act in my best interest and support me to be better at my career.
Boris just went on about Brexit and shouted. Also he shouted about Brexit. Oh he did also talk briefly about Brexit.
I like to have as much money in my pocket as I can. I think Corbyn will probably take money out of my pocket. But I also think he will use that money to support the less well off. And you know what - I actually quite like that, tackling poverty and bringing more equality will improve the lives of the majority. This should improve safety by reducing crime. Yes I am willing to give up more of my money to benefit wider society because I think that will in the long term benefit our communities and ways of life.
For me Corbyn is infinitely more trustworthy if a little naive (but I think with a good heart) and he will get my vote even if it is going to cost me more money.
This “Labour is massively racist” is trotted out a lot. And it all relates to a long standing agenda of tieing anti Israeli policy sentiment to “anti-semitism”. Doesn’t wash with me or with anyone with any sense. News to the Jewish posters on here; I’m afraid millions of people the world over do not like Israeli foreign policy, even given the situation they face... that doesn’t make those millions of people anti-Jewish - or even anti Israel for that matter.
This nuanced world is certainly too much for many a simple mind.
Corbyn has literally been on marches against racism / whilst Boris was shafting some tart and likely fathering yet another kid. All the while, anti Islam sentiment in the Tory party gets a pass; as do some of Boris’s not so tactful comments.
As for the debate; I don’t trust either of them. Boris less so; you get the feeling it’s all a big adventure for him; just another leg in his aspirational journey. He comes across very very poorly.
Corbyn comes across as someone who does actually care about the less fortunate. However; it’s what his ideas actually entail that can send a shiver down one’s spine. The balance of taxation is so delicate and taking a hammer to the situation will see a lot of people up and leave; or at least their money will. Having said that; some of the ideas Labour have had / tax levels aren’t all that extraordinary when you look passed the headlines.
I’d be heavily hit; so much so, I’d struggle to consider Corbyn. Having said that; I get why people would vote for Corbyn. Especially up against Boris.
This nuanced world is certainly too much for many a simple mind.
Corbyn has literally been on marches against racism / whilst Boris was shafting some tart and likely fathering yet another kid. All the while, anti Islam sentiment in the Tory party gets a pass; as do some of Boris’s not so tactful comments.
As for the debate; I don’t trust either of them. Boris less so; you get the feeling it’s all a big adventure for him; just another leg in his aspirational journey. He comes across very very poorly.
Corbyn comes across as someone who does actually care about the less fortunate. However; it’s what his ideas actually entail that can send a shiver down one’s spine. The balance of taxation is so delicate and taking a hammer to the situation will see a lot of people up and leave; or at least their money will. Having said that; some of the ideas Labour have had / tax levels aren’t all that extraordinary when you look passed the headlines.
I’d be heavily hit; so much so, I’d struggle to consider Corbyn. Having said that; I get why people would vote for Corbyn. Especially up against Boris.
jakesmith said:
And without the wealth creators, employers, entrepreneurs, the bright, the globally mobile, the aspirational, there would be sweet fk all in the tax take to help the less well off
And the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing
It is a complacency borne out of affluence and the fading of folk memories of genuine hardship. This belief that the economy will always be there to provide, even if Labour take a hammer to the successful and to the property rights that are one of the foundation stones of any successful economy.k all in the tax take to help the less well offAnd the borrowing he would do, to fund his unsustainable spending, would leave the Torys who would take power after Labour bankrupted the country yet again, to do a decade or two of austerity that would make the last 10 years look like nothing
It will all be far too late if they get in so I would urge people to at least try and educate themselves and to look at the economic performance of those communist regimes that have existed, when they have been following this path . As well as what has happened more recently in places like Venezuela.
W12GT said:
Without wishing to get into an argument I have to disagree emphatically with your paragraph about entrepreneurship, small businesses etc. The reason? IR35. It never really carried much weight until recently; come April 2020 everyone running small businesses WILL me massively affected by it. And I’m talking significant increases in your tax/NI. The torrid have already suppressed and damaged the small businesses. They’ve allowed big businesses to dominate and make it hard to be competitive.
Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Mystery solved, sour grapes over IR35 changes.Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Middle class tax evasion is not going to get treated any more favourably under a hard left Labour government.
In terms of who came out best in the debate. Polling says a draw
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Tories are well ahead in the polls so they will be happy with that I imagine.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Tories are well ahead in the polls so they will be happy with that I imagine.
W12GT said:
Without wishing to get into an argument I have to disagree emphatically with your paragraph about entrepreneurship, small businesses etc. The reason? IR35. It never really carried much weight until recently; come April 2020 everyone running small businesses WILL me massively affected by it. And I’m talking significant increases in your tax/NI. The torrid have already suppressed and damaged the small businesses. They’ve allowed big businesses to dominate and make it hard to be competitive.
Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Not convinced that most PSCS are entrepreneurial in nature. They generally don't seek to grow and employ additional staff or produce any product other than one individuals skill set. In the 1980's and 90's PSC formation was being sold as a tax efficient vehicle for individuals. Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
JagLover said:
In terms of who came out best in the debate. Polling says a draw
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Tories are well ahead in the polls so they will be happy with that I imagine.
Noticed the timestamp on that article? It's before the debate took place. Yet gives the results of a post debate poll.https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Tories are well ahead in the polls so they will be happy with that I imagine.
JagLover said:
W12GT said:
Without wishing to get into an argument I have to disagree emphatically with your paragraph about entrepreneurship, small businesses etc. The reason? IR35. It never really carried much weight until recently; come April 2020 everyone running small businesses WILL me massively affected by it. And I’m talking significant increases in your tax/NI. The torrid have already suppressed and damaged the small businesses. They’ve allowed big businesses to dominate and make it hard to be competitive.
Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Mystery solved, sour grapes over IR35 changes.Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Middle class tax evasion is not going to get treated any more favourably under a hard left Labour government.
vdn said:
This “Labour is massively racist” is trotted out a lot. And it all relates to a long standing agenda of tieing anti Israeli policy sentiment to “anti-semitism”. Doesn’t wash with me or with anyone with any sense. News to the Jewish posters on here; I’m afraid millions of people the world over do not like Israeli foreign policy, even given the situation they face... that doesn’t make those millions of people anti-Jewish - or even anti Israel for that matter.
This nuanced world is certainly too much for many a simple mind.
Yeah, like brushing aside accusations of institutional antisemitism as "muh zionists" This nuanced world is certainly too much for many a simple mind.
wormus said:
JagLover said:
W12GT said:
Without wishing to get into an argument I have to disagree emphatically with your paragraph about entrepreneurship, small businesses etc. The reason? IR35. It never really carried much weight until recently; come April 2020 everyone running small businesses WILL me massively affected by it. And I’m talking significant increases in your tax/NI. The torrid have already suppressed and damaged the small businesses. They’ve allowed big businesses to dominate and make it hard to be competitive.
Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Mystery solved, sour grapes over IR35 changes.Don’t be fooled by the spiel the Tories are touting - anyone working for themselves in the public sector will tell you how harshly IR35 has been in the recent 2 years.believe it or not it has also removed workers rights. Things like expenses not being able to be claimed, the way pensions are handled, holidays and sickness etc. Basically anyone working as a consultant COMPLIANTLY under IR35 is at the bottom of the pack and certainly worse of than full employees. They are put on fixed term contracts but with much reduced benefits.
Middle class tax evasion is not going to get treated any more favourably under a hard left Labour government.
W12GT is annoyed that the Tories have cracked down on tax avoidance and caught him.
he will now vote for a party that will destroy his wealth in revenge, the classic cutting off your nose to spite your face
JagLover said:
rscott said:
Noticed the timestamp on that article? It's before the debate took place. Yet gives the results of a post debate poll.
Reported elsewhere with the same polling result. All those reports just quote the YouGov results.
It's highly likely that they just created a draft page before the debate then updated it with the results afterward, but forgot to update the timestamp. Daft though - doesn't exactly look credible.
Earthdweller said:
The first post by W12GT was almost noble, but the second post let the truth out
W12GT is annoyed that the Tories have cracked down on tax avoidance and caught him.
he will now vote for a party that will destroy his wealth in revenge, the classic cutting off your nose to spite your face
True enough W12GT is annoyed that the Tories have cracked down on tax avoidance and caught him.
he will now vote for a party that will destroy his wealth in revenge, the classic cutting off your nose to spite your face
Interesting all the mixes of emotions and motivations that come into play in voting. I still say however that it is the complacency arising from affluence that allows some to take a gamble on the nation's future in a fit of pique.
Tuna said:
On the police numbers, I believe it was the case that particularly in the last few years of the Blair/Brown administration, money was thrown at the police, and numbers soared. In ten years, if you include the PSCO figures, a third more officers (40,000 people) were added to the force.
That was huge growth and I'm not sure if it was sustainable.
Knife crime does not reflect the number of police officers on the streets (at a historical high) - it reflects a change in policies (stop and search) and in the nature of crime at present, which is always subject to 'fashion' and social and economic shifts.
None of this is to offer any answers, but saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers" is not true. That sort of misunderstanding stops us from making rational decisions about the best way to manage crime and policing in the UK.
Nobody is saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers".That was huge growth and I'm not sure if it was sustainable.
Knife crime does not reflect the number of police officers on the streets (at a historical high) - it reflects a change in policies (stop and search) and in the nature of crime at present, which is always subject to 'fashion' and social and economic shifts.
None of this is to offer any answers, but saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers" is not true. That sort of misunderstanding stops us from making rational decisions about the best way to manage crime and policing in the UK.
There's much more to it than that.
But it seems common sense that if you reduce Police numbers it isn't going to help.
Helicopter123 said:
I’m in a similar quandary in that I like quite a lot of what Corbyn has to say, and I do want to live in a fairer more just country. I’m just not sure I want to take the tax hit, which would be significant.
How do you reconcile that with the anti-semitism issue?I couldn't vote for Corbyn in much the same way I couldn't vote for Farage.
Both will say the occasional sensible thing so at some point leadership and judgement come into it and I see those as just as big an issue with Corbyn as with Boris.
Bussolini said:
jeff666 said:
98elise said:
They have already done this with Landlords. We will be forced to sell our property to tenants at a discount price. For me that's about 30k per property.
In addition that will trigger a capital gain on the remaining equity so I will then get a big tax bill. That's my pension wiped out.
I've lived long enough to see many governments and many more budgets. Red or blue even the biggest changes have only made a few thousand difference per year. Labours policies will see me nearly wiped out if they ever get to enact them.
I never thought I would see the day when ordinary people would vote for a government that would seize assets from individuals, schools, and companies.
For the many not the few,In addition that will trigger a capital gain on the remaining equity so I will then get a big tax bill. That's my pension wiped out.
I've lived long enough to see many governments and many more budgets. Red or blue even the biggest changes have only made a few thousand difference per year. Labours policies will see me nearly wiped out if they ever get to enact them.
I never thought I would see the day when ordinary people would vote for a government that would seize assets from individuals, schools, and companies.
Didn't you get the memo ?
Thing is the people who will vote labour have nothing, they don't have rental properties, run businesses etc, they see somebody like you and buisiness owners like me as privileged, lucky etc, they don't see the many years of hard graft that has got us to where we are today.
I don't think Labour have a hope in hell of getting in especially with Corbyn at the helm.
Do you think it's fair that Corbyn forcing me to sell at a discount?
Bussolini said:
jeff666 said:
98elise said:
They have already done this with Landlords. We will be forced to sell our property to tenants at a discount price. For me that's about 30k per property.
In addition that will trigger a capital gain on the remaining equity so I will then get a big tax bill. That's my pension wiped out.
I've lived long enough to see many governments and many more budgets. Red or blue even the biggest changes have only made a few thousand difference per year. Labours policies will see me nearly wiped out if they ever get to enact them.
I never thought I would see the day when ordinary people would vote for a government that would seize assets from individuals, schools, and companies.
For the many not the few,In addition that will trigger a capital gain on the remaining equity so I will then get a big tax bill. That's my pension wiped out.
I've lived long enough to see many governments and many more budgets. Red or blue even the biggest changes have only made a few thousand difference per year. Labours policies will see me nearly wiped out if they ever get to enact them.
I never thought I would see the day when ordinary people would vote for a government that would seize assets from individuals, schools, and companies.
Didn't you get the memo ?
Thing is the people who will vote labour have nothing, they don't have rental properties, run businesses etc, they see somebody like you and buisiness owners like me as privileged, lucky etc, they don't see the many years of hard graft that has got us to where we are today.
I don't think Labour have a hope in hell of getting in especially with Corbyn at the helm.
Do you think it's fair that Corbyn forcing me to sell at a discount?
Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 20th November 08:21
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tuna said:
On the police numbers, I believe it was the case that particularly in the last few years of the Blair/Brown administration, money was thrown at the police, and numbers soared. In ten years, if you include the PSCO figures, a third more officers (40,000 people) were added to the force.
That was huge growth and I'm not sure if it was sustainable.
Knife crime does not reflect the number of police officers on the streets (at a historical high) - it reflects a change in policies (stop and search) and in the nature of crime at present, which is always subject to 'fashion' and social and economic shifts.
None of this is to offer any answers, but saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers" is not true. That sort of misunderstanding stops us from making rational decisions about the best way to manage crime and policing in the UK.
Nobody is saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers".That was huge growth and I'm not sure if it was sustainable.
Knife crime does not reflect the number of police officers on the streets (at a historical high) - it reflects a change in policies (stop and search) and in the nature of crime at present, which is always subject to 'fashion' and social and economic shifts.
None of this is to offer any answers, but saying "knife crime is high because the Tories have reduced police officers" is not true. That sort of misunderstanding stops us from making rational decisions about the best way to manage crime and policing in the UK.
There's much more to it than that.
But it seems common sense that if you reduce Police numbers it isn't going to help.
You may have been suggesting that record high police on the street, yet a reduction elsewhere, is leading to higher knife crime, but that doesn't seem like a common sense conclusion to me..
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