Election 2019

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

Roman Rhodes said:

Digga said:

Roman Rhodes said:

Earthdweller said:

2/3 of all rail journeys are in/out of London

Trains are primarily used at peak times by commuters

A couple of years ago I looked at a day trip to London with my 10 year old to visit the science museum/natural history museum during the summer holidays

It was cheaper ( by far ) to travel from Lancashire to London by car and stay overnight in a Premier Inn than go by train ( and the overnight stay meant we could do Windsor Castle )

Shame really because he’s never been on an inter-city train and I thought it would be a good experience for him

Can you show your workings? I just checked Manchester Piccadilly into Euston for Saturday 25th Jan - 1 adult and 1 child day return = £75. 2 adults and 1 child would be £99. From Lancaster £87 or £100. No railcards. You'll have a travel cost each end - minimal in London.

You can't drive to London, pay to park and stay in a Premier Inn for less than that.

Prices are tough for commuters at peak times but leisure travel is relatively cheap.

Depends how far you book ahead though with rail, doesn;t it?

So looking at buying fares today on Virgin, it's £160 odd quid, one-way, for 1 adult alone.

If someone wakes up and on a whim decides to take their kid out on a day trip from Lancashire to London they're clearly going to pay dearly for it. Same with Premier Inn - Kings X tonight = £198. Realistically, most people plan ahead unless they're stupid or don't care about the cost.

A long time ago, for my sins, I was a regional organiser for a car club. So most of our members were middle class and of sufficient means and intellect to plan, but I can assure you, from being involved in numerous trips and events, most people do not plan ahead.

People are highly reactive. You only have to ask retailers how they've fared during the recent, wet weather. Now correct me if I am wrong, but there is nothing about going into a town, and going into a shop, which is affected by rain, and yet.

You would think that after realising the journey was going to be £1,000 if they didn't plan or £138 if they did plan most people would manage to get themselves organised. Clearly market forces aren't the be all and end all that PH posters generally maintain! That or the majority of people are stupid or very wealthy.

[otolith]

Roman Rhodes said:

You would think that after realising the journey was going to be £1,000 if they didn't plan or £138 if they did plan most people would manage to get themselves organised. Clearly market forces aren't the be all and end all that PH posters generally maintain! That or the majority of people are stupid or very wealthy.

He did get himself organised, he booked a hotel and drove.

There has always been a problem with the railways of people justifying rail ticket prices by quoting fares that only gricers can find. It's a lot better now than it used to be, with The Trainline, etc, but it's still easy to look at the headline price for when you would ideally like to travel and just say "fk it, may as well drive".

[Digga]

otolith said:

Roman Rhodes said:

You would think that after realising the journey was going to be £1,000 if they didn't plan or £138 if they did plan most people would manage to get themselves organised. Clearly market forces aren't the be all and end all that PH posters generally maintain! That or the majority of people are stupid or very wealthy.

He did get himself organised, he booked a hotel and drove.

There has always been a problem with the railways of people justifying rail ticket prices by quoting fares that only gricers can find. It's a lot better now than it used to be, with The Trainline, etc, but it's still easy to look at the headline price for when you would ideally like to travel and just say "fk it, may as well drive".

I think the parallels with the most impecunious families having to pay the highest interest rates, or being stuck in a treadmill of unhealthy and (relatively) expensive food shopping are clear. The systems don't help the hardest up to save.

[crankedup]

Why do train operators run such complex ticket pricing, I can appreciate that journeys at commuter times may be more expensive than at non rush two hour times but why the wide variety of prices outside of those time blocks?

[Earthdweller]

rxe said:

Killboy said:

Circa £29 for an advanced single and £14.50 for a child fare for Adlington to Euston. Never realised the Premier Inn and fuel was that cheap.

In order to get a full day out, the adult advanced fare is 172 quid one way.

Of course you can get cheap tickets travelling at midday, but if you actually want to do something in London, you need to leave early and get there in the morning.

My quick glance at the train line for next Monday suggests this is 370 quid for the adult return if you want to be in London by 10:00 in the morning and leave at about 6 in the evening. Yes, if you arrive in Euston at 14:00 and get the next train home, you can do it for less.

Thanks for that reply

It was midweek, during the summer holidays.

As someone working shifts including nights and weekends it’s hard to plan months ahead or go places on weekends

I looked about a fortnight before hand

iirc going from Preston to Euston for me and my lad was about £350 return ..

I actually stayed at the Hilton @ Terminal 5 which I got an amazing deal on iirc £50 including 24hrs free parking.. walked straight into terminal onto the tube and down to the Science Museum

Diesel in a 320d was about £60 return

[Digga]

crankedup said:

Why do train operators run such complex ticket pricing, I can appreciate that journeys at commuter times may be more expensive than at non rush two hour times but why the wide variety of prices outside of those time blocks?

A good while back, Mrs Digga worked on the legacy system that sits behind the nice, user-friendly website front-ends that us plebs book our rail tickets on.

There is a long answer (algos etc.) as to how they make the prices differ, but the short answer is simply that it suits the train company and they tried to imitate the airline industry.

[pingu393]

Roman Rhodes said:

Earthdweller said:

2/3 of all rail journeys are in/out of London

Trains are primarily used at peak times by commuters

A couple of years ago I looked at a day trip to London with my 10 year old to visit the science museum/natural history museum during the summer holidays

It was cheaper ( by far ) to travel from Lancashire to London by car and stay overnight in a Premier Inn than go by train ( and the overnight stay meant we could do Windsor Castle )

Shame really because he’s never been on an inter-city train and I thought it would be a good experience for him

Can you show your workings? I just checked Manchester Piccadilly into Euston for Saturday 25th Jan - 1 adult and 1 child day return = £75. 2 adults and 1 child would be £99. From Lancaster £87 or £100. No railcards. You'll have a travel cost each end - minimal in London.

You can't drive to London, pay to park and stay in a Premier Inn for less than that.

Prices are tough for commuters at peak times but leisure travel is relatively cheap.

You can do what I did last week. Buy a ticket from Crewe to Glasgow, get dropped off at Preston by Virgin to get a coach to Carlisle, then back on the train. Money refunded in full.

I can vouch for the FACT that 100% of my train journeys under this Tory Government are FREE. Beat that, Corbyn .

[otolith]

Earthdweller said:

Thanks for that reply

It was midweek, during the summer holidays.

As someone working shifts including nights and weekends it’s hard to plan months ahead or go places on weekends

I looked about a fortnight before hand

iirc going from Preston to Euston for me and my lad was about £350 return ..

I actually stayed at the Hilton @ Terminal 5 which I got an amazing deal on iirc £50 including 24hrs free parking.. walked straight into terminal onto the tube and down to the Science Museum

Diesel in a 320d was about £60 return

When I have done Preston-Euston, usually arriving Friday evening and returning Sunday, it's been more like £95 return. You got transport and accommodation for two for £110. Bit of a no-brainer even at weekend prices.

[Earthdweller]

otolith said:

Earthdweller said:

Thanks for that reply

It was midweek, during the summer holidays.

As someone working shifts including nights and weekends it’s hard to plan months ahead or go places on weekends

I looked about a fortnight before hand

iirc going from Preston to Euston for me and my lad was about £350 return ..

I actually stayed at the Hilton @ Terminal 5 which I got an amazing deal on iirc £50 including 24hrs free parking.. walked straight into terminal onto the tube and down to the Science Museum

Diesel in a 320d was about £60 return

When I have done Preston-Euston, usually arriving Friday evening and returning Sunday, it's been more like £95 return. You got transport and accommodation for two for £110. Bit of a no-brainer even at weekend prices.

In an ideal world we’d all plan our lives and travels months in advance ...

Sometimes you can find you have a free day coming up and decide to do something on the spur

[bitchstewie]

Strange times.

Just blatant lies.

'Total rubbish': Sajid Javid rebuked for falsely claiming homelessness is falling under Conservatives

[crankedup]

Digga said:

crankedup said:

Why do train operators run such complex ticket pricing, I can appreciate that journeys at commuter times may be more expensive than at non rush two hour times but why the wide variety of prices outside of those time blocks?

A good while back, Mrs Digga worked on the legacy system that sits behind the nice, user-friendly website front-ends that us plebs book our rail tickets on.

There is a long answer (algos etc.) as to how they make the prices differ, but the short answer is simply that it suits the train company and they tried to imitate the airline industry.

Seems to me that competition introduced by privatisation hasn’t worked, I watch ‘choo choo portillo ‘
and envy the European levels of service. Apparently the Japanese hang their heads in shame if their train service runs tens seconds late!,

[Digga]

crankedup said:

Digga said:

crankedup said:

Why do train operators run such complex ticket pricing, I can appreciate that journeys at commuter times may be more expensive than at non rush two hour times but why the wide variety of prices outside of those time blocks?

A good while back, Mrs Digga worked on the legacy system that sits behind the nice, user-friendly website front-ends that us plebs book our rail tickets on.

There is a long answer (algos etc.) as to how they make the prices differ, but the short answer is simply that it suits the train company and they tried to imitate the airline industry.

Seems to me that competition introduced by privatisation hasn’t worked, I watch ‘choo choo portillo ‘
and envy the European levels of service. Apparently the Japanese hang their heads in shame if their train service runs tens seconds late!,

Much of the malaise in the UK is down to the style of the unions. The RMT are dinosaurs.

[768]

bhstewie said:

Strange times.

Just blatant lies.

'Total rubbish': Sajid Javid rebuked for falsely claiming homelessness is falling under Conservatives

Well, it did reach a higher peak under Labour and it was almost half that under a Conservative government, probably still was near enough in the figures when he became Communities Secretary.

It looks increasingly untrue that it's anywhere near half of that peak today even if it's lower and it seems in the last few weeks we no longer have a distinction between a time-sensitive inaccuracy and a blatant lie. Strange times indeed.

[feef]

Earthdweller said:

otolith said:

Earthdweller said:

Thanks for that reply

It was midweek, during the summer holidays.

As someone working shifts including nights and weekends it’s hard to plan months ahead or go places on weekends

I looked about a fortnight before hand

iirc going from Preston to Euston for me and my lad was about £350 return ..

I actually stayed at the Hilton @ Terminal 5 which I got an amazing deal on iirc £50 including 24hrs free parking.. walked straight into terminal onto the tube and down to the Science Museum

Diesel in a 320d was about £60 return

When I have done Preston-Euston, usually arriving Friday evening and returning Sunday, it's been more like £95 return. You got transport and accommodation for two for £110. Bit of a no-brainer even at weekend prices.

In an ideal world we’d all plan our lives and travels months in advance ...

Sometimes you can find you have a free day coming up and decide to do something on the spur

One of my more frequent long trips is up to see my folks in Scotland.

Looking at the 20th for example...

6 1/2 hrs in the car (with stops) and £160 in fuel including the flexibility of door-to-door, come and go when I want rather than relying on catching a specific train and don't have to worry about luggage.

or £188 for a train with 4 changes that takes over 7 hrs.

so even tho the prices are perhaps comparable the flexibility of the car makes it a far better option

[otolith]

Earthdweller said:

otolith said:

Earthdweller said:

Thanks for that reply

It was midweek, during the summer holidays.

As someone working shifts including nights and weekends it’s hard to plan months ahead or go places on weekends

I looked about a fortnight before hand

iirc going from Preston to Euston for me and my lad was about £350 return ..

I actually stayed at the Hilton @ Terminal 5 which I got an amazing deal on iirc £50 including 24hrs free parking.. walked straight into terminal onto the tube and down to the Science Museum

Diesel in a 320d was about £60 return

When I have done Preston-Euston, usually arriving Friday evening and returning Sunday, it's been more like £95 return. You got transport and accommodation for two for £110. Bit of a no-brainer even at weekend prices.

In an ideal world we’d all plan our lives and travels months in advance ...

Sometimes you can find you have a free day coming up and decide to do something on the spur

That's the nature of public transport in general. But to be honest, that deal makes even the weekend tickets look expensive. The only problem is the driving time - could be 4 hours, could be 6. The fast Virgin train is 2:10 and the slow one more like 3:15.

[bitchstewie]

The Conservatives have told Fact Check that Sajid Javid "misremembers".

Javid ‘misremembers’ homelessness stat

[TheRealNoNeedy]

Sky news have taken Labours figures apart

https://twitter.com/SaltyDuchess/status/1202302491...

[Earthdweller]

otolith said:

That's the nature of public transport in general. But to be honest, that deal makes even the weekend tickets look expensive. The only problem is the driving time - could be 4 hours, could be 6. The fast Virgin train is 2:10 and the slow one more like 3:15.

It wasn’t bad tbf .. left early, just before 5am and got past Birmingham before the worst of the rush hour had kicked in and stopped on the top end of the M40 for Breakfast.

Then trundled down to Heathrow after the rush hour, got there about 10-1030

[gazapc]

crankedup said:

Seems to me that competition introduced by privatisation hasn’t worked, I watch ‘choo choo portillo ‘
and envy the European levels of service. Apparently the Japanese hang their heads in shame if their train service runs tens seconds late!,

Yet in Italy they are rolling out a new private high speed service...

I'm slightly baffled at some the suggestions our level of service are orders of magnitude behind similar european countries. Sure France has a good high speed network but the more rural network has suffered from underinvestment. Yes there are delays in the UK but far better than any corresponding bus or other public transport service; the majority of the time I get to where I need to go, when expected. Services on most lines are regular. Cutting fares by 1/3 is not going to help capacity...

Some of the worst problems have come from government interference (spec of new GWR IETs) or from essentially government run bodies (Network Rail and electricification). This bodes well for nationalisation...

I've referred to this article before (although it is now a few years ago) but it highlights that problem with just looking at same day, walk up fair prices.
https://budgettraveller.org/uk-trains-cheap/

[FiF]

Realise this will send some into froth central with it being a link to a Dan Hannah tweet linking to a Guido tweet.

Just watch the video.
Totally - Fizzing - Hilarious

Labour supporters reaction after being asked to comment on Boris Johnson Antisemitic statements when told they were actually Corbyn's.

Comments range from serious Antisemitic ones to serial fog plaiting.

https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/120257069...