Poll: Election 2019
Total Members Polled: 1601
Discussion
otolith said:
Nickgnome said:
otolith said:
Hereward said:
I have been fascinated to see how many Marxists exist in the UK in modern times. I simply cannot comprehend it. Poor education? Lack of world knowledge? Zero grasp of economics? Totally baffling to me. I guess most people are ignorant, sadly.
People like free stuff paid for by other people.That's it.
You can get a lot of people to agree on having free stuff paid for by other people.
deadslow said:
snuffy said:
otolith said:
People like free stuff paid for by other people.
That's it.
Correct. Which is why when you are young and don't have much money you like that idea very much. Then as you get older and start earning a living, you are not so keen on state-sponsored theft.That's it.
How much employer NI does the average youngster pay each year? How many full-time jobs do they create including on Friday strike days?
The only surprise in this is how long it takes supposedly educated people to wake up to reality.
Labour doesn't work.
JagLover said:
Hereward said:
I have been fascinated to see how many Marxists exist in the UK in modern times. I simply cannot comprehend it. Poor education? Lack of world knowledge? Zero grasp of economics? Totally baffling to me. I guess most people are ignorant, sadly.
Most of them aren't actually Marxists they just haven't the faintest idea of what Labour are planning to do when they get in. All they hear is "free" stuff paid for by those rich bast*rds.If Labour do get in then those fools at least will be getting exactly what they deserve.
k up the economy every time they’re in government.chrispmartha said:
Where has the EU said that
Anyway, these Labour supporters on here? Where, there’s hardly any if any at all. Or are you using that old binary thinking that criticism of Boris = Labour supporter?
Already explained. Do me the courtesy of reading posts. Labour? there have been plenty, not everything is about you. What an arrogant contribution. Anyway, these Labour supporters on here? Where, there’s hardly any if any at all. Or are you using that old binary thinking that criticism of Boris = Labour supporter?
turbobloke said:
deadslow said:
snuffy said:
otolith said:
People like free stuff paid for by other people.
That's it.
Correct. Which is why when you are young and don't have much money you like that idea very much. Then as you get older and start earning a living, you are not so keen on state-sponsored theft.That's it.
How much employer NI does the average youngster pay each year? How many full-time jobs do they create including on Friday strike days?
The only surprise in this is how long it takes supposedly educated people to wake up to reality.
Labour doesn't work.
loafer123 said:
Nickgnome said:
Do they? Or do they like to consider they live in an equitable society.
Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
I agree, but you would have to accept higher unemployment.Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
In my opinion the state intervenes in the wrong way. Instead of subsidising low wages they should legislate a sensible living wage based on a reasonable number of hours a year. Then reduce corporation tax and other taxes to balance.
Nickgnome said:
otolith said:
Nickgnome said:
otolith said:
Hereward said:
I have been fascinated to see how many Marxists exist in the UK in modern times. I simply cannot comprehend it. Poor education? Lack of world knowledge? Zero grasp of economics? Totally baffling to me. I guess most people are ignorant, sadly.
People like free stuff paid for by other people.That's it.
You can get a lot of people to agree on having free stuff paid for by other people.
Nickgnome said:
otolith said:
Hereward said:
I have been fascinated to see how many Marxists exist in the UK in modern times. I simply cannot comprehend it. Poor education? Lack of world knowledge? Zero grasp of economics? Totally baffling to me. I guess most people are ignorant, sadly.
People like free stuff paid for by other people.That's it.
Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
My wife and some both have minimum wage jobs, neither is subsidised by the government and as far as I'm aware neither are any of their colleagues.
My wife is a nursery worker, and my son a barman. Neither needs a living wage, if they did they would set their sights higher. If the wages were higher they would probably be out of work.
vaud said:
Nickgnome said:
Do they? Or do they like to consider they live in an equitable society.
Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
Subsidy has it's place at times. Each case is arguable:Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
1) Scrappage scheme post 2008 arguably kept many jobs through a downturn
2) Investing in national infrastructure (rail subsidy is at it's highest now IIRC)
3) Electric cars and charging points to kick start demand
4) Farming is a tricky one. Fundamentally do you want to make it more expensive for poor people to buy milk?
Thoughts?
1-3 are exactly what governments are for.
They should as far as possible keep out of business excepting that minimum wage at a realistic level which would mean that yes food prices would increase and this should be covered in that wage.
98elise said:
I don't think all jobs need to pay a living wage, and nor are those businesses necessary subsidised.
My wife and some both have minimum wage jobs, neither is subsidised by the government and as far as I'm aware neither are any of their colleagues.
My wife is a nursery worker, and my son a barman. Neither needs a living wage, if they did they would set their sights higher. If the wages were higher they would probably be out of work.
I disagree. Your personal circumstance is not relevant to the principle. My wife and some both have minimum wage jobs, neither is subsidised by the government and as far as I'm aware neither are any of their colleagues.
My wife is a nursery worker, and my son a barman. Neither needs a living wage, if they did they would set their sights higher. If the wages were higher they would probably be out of work.
Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
Nickgnome said:
I disagree. Your personal circumstance is not relevant to the principle.
Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
Your attitude towards wages relies on printing money or mass unemployment. Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
The state should encourage businesses to invest in growth and people to work rather than be reliant entirely on benefits.
It's rare that polarised dichotomies are the solution to anything.
Nickgnome said:
Do they? Or do they like to consider they live in an equitable society.
Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
Plenty of justification for roles that in and of themselves do not permit a "reasonable living". Should any business exist if it cannot pay a wage on which a person can live reasonably without government intervention and subsidy? I’d argue No.
Why should a business be subsidised?
I've done many myself, quite happily - without any government intervention or subsidy.
Nickgnome said:
98elise said:
I don't think all jobs need to pay a living wage, and nor are those businesses necessary subsidised.
My wife and some both have minimum wage jobs, neither is subsidised by the government and as far as I'm aware neither are any of their colleagues.
My wife is a nursery worker, and my son a barman. Neither needs a living wage, if they did they would set their sights higher. If the wages were higher they would probably be out of work.
I disagree. Your personal circumstance is not relevant to the principle. My wife and some both have minimum wage jobs, neither is subsidised by the government and as far as I'm aware neither are any of their colleagues.
My wife is a nursery worker, and my son a barman. Neither needs a living wage, if they did they would set their sights higher. If the wages were higher they would probably be out of work.
Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
My wife and son do work for "pin money". My wife wants her own disposable income, and my son is at uni so wants beer money. Neither of them needs, nor wants a full time job/career at the moment.
At least with benefits you are targeting the needy.
98elise said:
I would love them to earn a living wage, but it's just not practical for every low skill job. It will simply be eroded by inflation or will lead to no job.
My wife and son do work for "pin money". My wife wants her own disposable income, and my son is at uni so wants beer money. Neither of them needs, nor wants a full time job/career at the moment.
At least with benefits you are targeting the needy.
No person in a civilised society should be needy. It’s fundamentally inhuman.My wife and son do work for "pin money". My wife wants her own disposable income, and my son is at uni so wants beer money. Neither of them needs, nor wants a full time job/career at the moment.
At least with benefits you are targeting the needy.
Your son does need a living wage to get through Uni. At 18 he is an adult and should not need to rely on his parents. What of the families which cannot sustain an adult through Uni.
To me it is dishonest for the government to subsidise the working poor when in reality they are subsiding business but giving money to people is seen as politically generous but subsiding business is seen as unfair competition. It’s a big confidence and political sales trick.
It’s the same money just distributed in a different manner.
janesmith1950 said:
Nickgnome said:
I disagree. Your personal circumstance is not relevant to the principle.
Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
Your attitude towards wages relies on printing money or mass unemployment. Your son should not need to rely on parental support in anyway to survive. It’s just wrong.
If the nursery worker next to your wife is single and doing the same job then she and your wife should receive a living wage. How else is she to survive?
Your attitude seems to be out of an era where wives went out to work for ‘pin money’
Many businesses are subsidised by their employees receiving income support. That cannot be correct. If a business cannot pay a living wage, which should be mandated then it should not exist.
The state should encourage businesses to invest in growth and people to work rather than be reliant entirely on benefits.
It's rare that polarised dichotomies are the solution to anything.
When one creates a business it should not predicated on employing people on below a living wage to make it viable.
However you wrap it up, income support for employees is actually a business subsidy.
If someone receives a wage on which they can live, surely their self esteem and feeling of worth to society is massively more than if they need to claim various benefits to survive. Do you not consider that demeaning for that person?
Obviously there will be a balance in as much that business taxes will be reduced.
If we feel certain business really do need help then surely we should be open and honest.
Nickgnome said:
No person in a civilised society should be needy. It’s fundamentally inhuman.
Your son does need a living wage to get through Uni. At 18 he is an adult and should not need to rely on his parents. What of the families which cannot sustain an adult through Uni.
To me it is dishonest for the government to subsidise the working poor when in reality they are subsiding business but giving money to people is seen as politically generous but subsiding business is seen as unfair competition. It’s a big confidence and political sales trick.
It’s the same money just distributed in a different manner.
I am willing to give a living wage if the government will drop my taxes by an equal amount Your son does need a living wage to get through Uni. At 18 he is an adult and should not need to rely on his parents. What of the families which cannot sustain an adult through Uni.
To me it is dishonest for the government to subsidise the working poor when in reality they are subsiding business but giving money to people is seen as politically generous but subsiding business is seen as unfair competition. It’s a big confidence and political sales trick.
It’s the same money just distributed in a different manner.
(and the government should then be better of as I've paid the wage and they haven't had to do the paperwork etc).
otolith said:
We operate in the system we have. We vote for the system we want. Lots of people appear to want a system in which the range and quantity of free stuff is improved by means of other people paying more tax. If you asked them whether the range and quantity of free stuff available should be improved by them paying more tax, you might find that it's not quite as popular.
Unfortunately that’s never changes. The political parties want to be sen as our benevolent masters. They are politically dishonest. To admit that our system of tax and benefits across business and the public need a huge overhaul would scare most.
We have an unsustainable state pension system and care system but will any of them actually take it on. Probably not in my lifetime.
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