Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)

[bitchstewie]

psi310398 said:

bhstewie said:

Aren't those two separate things though?

Seems a heck of a gamble vs. "Here are our reasons but we believe as a matter of principle that this is a decision for government".

I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive.

Giving reasons when your position is that this is none of the courts' business sounds a lot like accepting that court is entitled to ask for and get an account from the government.

The government failing to turn up in court would smack of disrespect, however.

I suspect that the Treasury Devil or whoever is defending will suggest in the politest of terms that the courts butt out of what is essentially a political matter.

It's one where I can see both sides of the argument.

But I still think it's telling when Boris tells the public that it's all about a Queens speech and his domestic agenda and nothing to do with Brexit yet when asked to "Just write that down so we can pop it before the court" nobody from the Government seems prepared to do so.

Very telling even in light of whether the courts should be involved in this stuff in the first place.

[NoNeed]

XCP said:

If he can't deal with a few hecklers, maybe he's in the wrong job.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it come true you know.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

NoNeed said:

epeating a lie doesn't make it come true you know.

Boris seems to think so.

[XCP]

NoNeed said:

XCP said:

If he can't deal with a few hecklers, maybe he's in the wrong job.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it come true you know.

I wish someone would tell our politicians that.

[bitchstewie]

pgh said:

Why should Number 10 be obligated to write down their reasons? What benefit does it give other than letting Gina's backers crawl over them looking for another avenue for a time wasting legal challenge?

I didn't say that they should be obligated.

But if faced with court I'm struggling with why it's should be such a problem for anyone from Government to provide a simple truthful witness statement supporting their case.

[psi310398]

bhstewie said:

I didn't say that they should be obligated.

But if faced with court I'm struggling with why it's should be such a problem for anyone from Government to provide a simple truthful witness statement supporting their case.

I thought Lord Keen covered the reasons quite well this afternoon. Part of which was that the court had indicated itself satisfied with the information already provided and had noted that requiring a minister to produce whatever the Scottish version of a witness statement is would be unusual and was not required. The Lord Advocate apparently stated all this in terms in his judgement, too.

[Earthdweller]

valiant said:

As do ours but also choose not to. Many a vocal protest outside the gates to Downing St whenever the No10 podium gets wheeled out.

Most PMs manage just fine and talk over the protests. Boris seems to use any excuse to keep himself away from being questioned.

The difference being the crowds are about 200m away behind bomb proof gates with a large contingent of heavily armed Police between them .. not within almost touching distance

I’d suggest the security risk to the UK PM is considerably higher than that to the Lux’ PM

[s2art]

bhstewie said:

I didn't say that they should be obligated.

But if faced with court I'm struggling with why it's should be such a problem for anyone from Government to provide a simple truthful witness statement supporting their case.

And who could that witness be?

[gooner1]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

NoNeed said:

epeating a lie doesn't make it come true you know.

Boris seems to think so.

Got to love a bit of irony.

[bitchstewie]

s2art said:

And who could that witness be?

I believe it's the court terminology and doesn't imply it would be the Queen if that's what you're asking?

From what I've read, and of course usual media stuff so could be all crap, that could simply be Boris or someone representing the Government.

Assuming Pannick would know https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/1173900...

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Earthdweller said:

The difference being the crowds are about 200m away behind bomb proof gates with a large contingent of heavily armed Police between them .. not within almost touching distance

I’d suggest the security risk to the UK PM is considerably higher than that to the Lux’ PM

200m would likely put them in the Thames.

Did you not see the pictures yesterday, the protesters in Luxembourg were about 10m away the other side of a fence. Or maybe they have very long arms.

[philv]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Earthdweller said:

The difference being the crowds are about 200m away behind bomb proof gates with a large contingent of heavily armed Police between them .. not within almost touching distance

I’d suggest the security risk to the UK PM is considerably higher than that to the Lux’ PM

200m would likely put them in the Thames.

Did you not see the pictures yesterday, the protesters in Luxembourg were about 10m away the other side of a fence. Or maybe they have very long arms.

Surprised tne lux government didn’t issue them all with megaphones, eggs and flares.

Even then there would be moaning he didn’t stay and get pelted.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

philv said:

Surprised tne lux government didn’t issue them all with megaphones, eggs and flares.

Even then there would be moaning he didn’t stay and get pelted.

Probably because your hate is not reciprocated.

[s2art]

bhstewie said:

s2art said:

And who could that witness be?

I believe it's the court terminology and doesn't imply it would be the Queen if that's what you're asking?

From what I've read, and of course usual media stuff so could be all crap, that could simply be Boris or someone representing the Government.

Assuming Pannick would know https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/1173900...

Well,,a witness must be one who actually witnessed what was said to the Queen, otherwise its pointless. And this might be an impediment;

You do swear by Almighty God to be a true and faithful Servant unto the Queen's Majesty, as one of Her Majesty's Privy Council. You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done, or spoken against Her Majesty's Person, Honour, Crown, or Dignity Royal, but you will let and withstand the same to the uttermost of your Power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty Herself, or to such of Her Privy Council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same. You will, in all things to be moved, treated, and debated in Council, faithfully and truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience; and will keep secret all Matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in Council. And if any of the said Treaties or Counsels shall touch any of the Counsellors, you will not reveal it unto him, but will keep the same until such time as, by the Consent of Her Majesty, or of the Council, Publication shall be made thereof. You will to your uttermost bear Faith and Allegiance unto the Queen's Majesty; and will assist and defend all Jurisdictions, Pre-eminences, and Authorities, granted to Her Majesty, and annexed to the Crown by Acts of Parliament, or otherwise, against all Foreign Princes, Persons, Prelates, States, or Potentates. And generally in all things you will do as a faithful and true Servant ought to do to Her Majesty. So help you God.[38]

[Earthdweller]

I haven’t got a lot of sympathy with the MP’s or their lawyers fighting this prorogation because I think they are being completely two faced about it

When May got her extension in March the first thing Parliament did was go on holiday to the incredulity of those in the rest of the E.U.

After their two and a half weeks off in April they then went on holiday for another three weeks in May, then had two and a half months off for the summer

I heard no clamour to recall Parliament.. I didn’t see Gina Millar in court trying to get them back

And I hear no clamours to cancel the party conferences

Yet, there is total outrage that Boris added a few days

Total hypocrisy

[anonymous-user]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

philv said:

Surprised tne lux government didn’t issue them all with megaphones, eggs and flares.

Even then there would be moaning he didn’t stay and get pelted.

Probably because your hate is not reciprocated.

The irony

You don't see Brexiteers marching and spouting bile at JCJ or Tusk do you?

[Earthdweller]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

200m would likely put them in the Thames.

Did you not see the pictures yesterday, the protesters in Luxembourg were about 10m away the other side of a fence. Or maybe they have very long arms.

Incorrect .. Downing St is about 230m in length off the top of my head

[bitchstewie]

s2art said:

Well,,a witness must be one who actually witnessed what was said to the Queen, otherwise its pointless. And this might be an impediment;

You do swear by Almighty God to be a true and faithful Servant unto the Queen's Majesty, as one of Her Majesty's Privy Council. You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done, or spoken against Her Majesty's Person, Honour, Crown, or Dignity Royal, but you will let and withstand the same to the uttermost of your Power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty Herself, or to such of Her Privy Council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same. You will, in all things to be moved, treated, and debated in Council, faithfully and truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience; and will keep secret all Matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in Council. And if any of the said Treaties or Counsels shall touch any of the Counsellors, you will not reveal it unto him, but will keep the same until such time as, by the Consent of Her Majesty, or of the Council, Publication shall be made thereof. You will to your uttermost bear Faith and Allegiance unto the Queen's Majesty; and will assist and defend all Jurisdictions, Pre-eminences, and Authorities, granted to Her Majesty, and annexed to the Crown by Acts of Parliament, or otherwise, against all Foreign Princes, Persons, Prelates, States, or Potentates. And generally in all things you will do as a faithful and true Servant ought to do to Her Majesty. So help you God.[38]

You'd think the lawyers involved in the case hopefully have a bit better idea than both of us do.

I don't think that's been given as a reason for no witness statements though.

[JagLover]

Earthdweller said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

200m would likely put them in the Thames.

Did you not see the pictures yesterday, the protesters in Luxembourg were about 10m away the other side of a fence. Or maybe they have very long arms.

Incorrect .. Downing St is about 230m in length off the top of my head

217m per google. The location of the place the PM speaks is a bit of a way along, but 150 metres sounds a reasonable estimate in my view. Certainly a far greater distance than 10 metres anyway.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Earthdweller said:

Incorrect .. Downing St is about 230m in length off the top of my head

217m according to Google.

But No10 and the lectern when used is not at the end.