Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)

Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

Bill

52,783 posts

255 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
There are undoubtedly major issues with getting into bed with TBP in a similar way to the DUP s&c fiasco. But there may not be a choice if they want to be in power - and one that is one thing they all want.
They'll need to get into bed with TBP before the election in order to stop them splitting the vote and that'll turn off a lot of moderate Tories.

The only way I can see it working is if TBP unilaterally decide not to go up against leave Tories and hope to be thrown some crumbs after the election.

PositronicRay

27,034 posts

183 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bill said:
The only way I can see it working is if TBP unilaterally decide not to go up against leave Tories and hope to be thrown some crumbs after the election.
I can't see that, they don't need or want crumbs. The brexit party want glory, then fold.

A kind of do and die.

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

244 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
We now have Farage calling Bojo a liar.

Going to be a fascinating few months.

Escort3500

11,913 posts

145 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
We now have Farage calling Bojo a liar.

Going to be a fascinating few months.
Ooh, the irony hehe

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
... Farage calling Bojo a liar.

...
Maybe the first time in ages that Farage has said something that is not a fib!

Bussolini

11,574 posts

85 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Away from Brexit for the moment, how do the Tory faithful feel about the Chancellor's comments on his impending budget?

From the FT:

“A perfect storm is brewing for next year’s deficit — even if a Brexit deal is passed,” said George Buckley, economist at Nomura. He noted that the deficit was already rising, a weakening economy would widen it further, the chancellor had already announced a significant increase in spending and the budget was yet to come."

So Boris' tax cuts were a lie, and the Tories are basically bribing the electorate with Labour-esque public spending and debt increases.



psi310398

9,101 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Away from Brexit for the moment, how do the Tory faithful feel about the Chancellor's comments on his impending budget?

From the FT:

“A perfect storm is brewing for next year’s deficit — even if a Brexit deal is passed,” said George Buckley, economist at Nomura. He noted that the deficit was already rising, a weakening economy would widen it further, the chancellor had already announced a significant increase in spending and the budget was yet to come."

So Boris' tax cuts were a lie, and the Tories are basically bribing the electorate with Labour-esque public spending and debt increases.
He would hardly be the first Chancellor of any party to make electoral bribes with taxpayer money, though, would he?

Brown, for example, was a past master, as were Lawson and Clarke.

Indeed, you'd be harder pressed to find a Chancellor who hadn't.

Bussolini

11,574 posts

85 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
psi310398 said:
He would hardly be the first Chancellor of any party to make electoral bribes with taxpayer money, though, would he?

Brown, for example, was a past master, as were Lawson and Clarke.

Indeed, you'd be harder pressed to find a Chancellor who hadn't.
Perhaps, but flying directly in the face of promises made on tax cuts, with all the bluster around Labour's record on debt and spending, is hypocritical and one wonders whether it will play well with the Tories core support.

JagLover

42,426 posts

235 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Perhaps, but flying directly in the face of promises made on tax cuts, with all the bluster around Labour's record on debt and spending, is hypocritical and one wonders whether it will play well with the Tories core support.
What bluster, have you seen the scale of Labour's spending commitments?

Absolutely no point trying to keep reducing the deficit if it results in a Labour government which bankrupts the country. Targeted spending increases are the way they will need to fight the next election.

Bussolini

11,574 posts

85 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
What bluster, have you seen the scale of Labour's spending commitments?

Absolutely no point trying to keep reducing the deficit if it results in a Labour government which bankrupts the country. Targeted spending increases are the way they will need to fight the next election.
Labour are a hard left party at the moment, of course they are going to want to spend and borrow - it's a pretty poor defence to lies and departure from principles to say 'but the Marxists want to spend more!'.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
When I am Evil Space Lizard Overlord (move over JRM) my first decree will be that Whataboutism in all forms is eternally banned.

Frik

13,542 posts

243 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
"But Labour" is not an argument.

I imagine it's something more like "We can sort it all when we've got Brexit done." Colour me unconvinced.

Apropos nothing, did anyone else notice that the only vote Boris has won so far he did so at a 52/48 margin?

Vanden Saab

14,107 posts

74 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
When I am Evil Space Lizard Overlord (move over JRM) my first decree will be that Whataboutism in all forms is eternally banned.
What about when you do it biglaugh

Escort3500

11,913 posts

145 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Bussolini said:
Perhaps, but flying directly in the face of promises made on tax cuts, with all the bluster around Labour's record on debt and spending, is hypocritical and one wonders whether it will play well with the Tories core support.
What bluster, have you seen the scale of Labour's spending commitments?

Absolutely no point trying to keep reducing the deficit if it results in a Labour government which bankrupts the country. Targeted spending increases are the way they will need to fight the next election.
Given their imminent-election spending promises, I’d say the Tories are quite capable of bankrupting the country themselves.

JagLover

42,426 posts

235 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Labour are a hard left party at the moment, of course they are going to want to spend and borrow - it's a pretty poor defence to lies and departure from principles to say 'but the Marxists want to spend more!'.
Then you will be free to vote for the party that wants to continue austerity.....if such a party exists.

Bussolini

11,574 posts

85 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Then you will be free to vote for the party that wants to continue austerity.....if such a party exists.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you in favour of higher spending and borrowing or in favour of further austerity and reducing the deficit?

JagLover

42,426 posts

235 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you in favour of higher spending and borrowing or in favour of further austerity and reducing the deficit?
Politics is the art of the possible, which is why many smart people fail as politicians.

At the present time the Tories need to tackle weaknesses in their political position in terns of education, law and order and the NHS and they also need to make a gesture toward "left behind areas" in terns of infrastructure spend. All of this means that, at present, they need to be increasing the deficit somewhat.

If healthier economic growth returns they may be able to both do the above and bring the budget back into balance. Losing an election, and thus bringing into office a party that will wreck both the country and its finances, is a pretty poor example of prudent economic management.

ElectricSoup

8,202 posts

151 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Bussolini said:
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you in favour of higher spending and borrowing or in favour of further austerity and reducing the deficit?
Politics is the art of the possible, which is why many smart people fail as politicians.

At the present time the Tories need to tackle weaknesses in their political position in terns of education, law and order and the NHS and they also need to make a gesture toward "left behind areas" in terns of infrastructure spend. All of this means that, at present, they need to be increasing the deficit somewhat.

If healthier economic growth returns they may be able to both do the above and bring the budget back into balance. Losing an election, and thus bringing into office a party that will wreck both the country and its finances, is a pretty poor example of prudent economic management.
And the elephant in the room there is the complete economic imprudence of Brexit. It is a huge, huge risk, with massive potential impacts in terms of the economy and the deficit. The Tories have lost their claim to be the party of economic prudence. We now have two "main" parties who both appear to be economically illiterate.

I despair.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Only those with their fingers in their ears saying la la la don’t know that a hard Brexit will wreck the country and its finances, so on that basis Johnson winning doesn’t count as the most prudent management either. Scylla and Charybdis again (Classical references to cheer up fans of the Latinate PM.)

Edited because 6am ish no coffee bblerrrgh.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 October 11:24


Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 October 11:33

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

135 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Frik said:
the only vote Boris has won so far he did so at a 52/48 margin?
52 is one of those spooky coincidence numbers.

In 1994, Sweden voted to join - 52%

In 1994, Norway, voted not to join. Guess the percentage? (And FWIW, in the same pattern as the UK referendum, the areas that voted to join/stay were the 'elite' metropolitan areas with all rural areas strongly against.)
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED