Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)
Discussion
psi310398 said:
Vanden Saab said:
Interesting timing. Hey eu if you are thinking of giving us an extension we are going to waste it by having another election....
I'd imagine that this is exactly the message the PM wants to send...b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:NoNeed said:
Very true, the EU must be thinking it's back to the negotiations again if BoJo loses.
I don't think that's going to be news to them.I thought the theory is they're more amenable to Corbyn as he's more likely to go for a customs union and single market access?
Vanden Saab said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
So, would not complying with the Benn Act be illegal or unlawful?
Illegal as it is written law. Interestingly prorouging Parliament for 5 weeks is still not illegal as the supreme Court made it clear that it was the particular circumstances of the timing that made it unlawful in this case. On the face of it looks like a serious error as it will allow a remainer parliament to cripple the UK's position in FTA negotiations through amendments and so cause a backlash among Brexiteers for allowing it to happen.
To point out the obvious THIS particular deal is popular with most Brexiteers certainly not ANY deal.
To point out the obvious THIS particular deal is popular with most Brexiteers certainly not ANY deal.
Boris said:
Dear Jeremy,
Last week, I agreed a new Withdrawal Agreement with the European Union. This is a great new deal which Parliament could have ratified and allowed us to honour our promises and leave by 31 October. Sadly you succeeded in persuading Parliament to ask the EU to delay Brexit until 31 January 2020.
On Tuesday, the Commons voted for our new deal but again voted for delay and, even worse, handed over control of what happens next to the other EU member states.
I have repeatedly made clear to EU leaders since I became Prime Minister that I believe any delay to be extremely damaging for the country and my view has never changed that we should leave on 31 October. However, it is clear from public and private comments of President Tusk that it is likely that the EU will offer a delay until 31 January, though it is possible that a shorter delay will be offered.
In our meeting yesterday you suggested that we propose a new timetable for getting the Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB) through Parliament.
This Parliament has, with your encouragement, voted repeatedly for delay. The vote on Tuesday was Parliament’s last chance to get Brexit done before 31 October and it voted, again, for delay. I am extremely sceptical this habit will change and many will doubt that this Parliament will do anything other than waste more time and then, in January, ask for yet another delay.
These repeated delays have been bad for the economy, bad for businesses, and bad for millions of people trying to plan their futures. If businesses assume that this Parliament will stay, paralysed, refusing to take responsibility for month after month into 2020, it will cause misery for millions.
It is our duty to end this nightmare and provide the country with a solution as soon as we reasonably can.
The EU may offer only a short extension, say to 15 or 30 November. This would, obviously, be my preference but I was legally prevented by Parliament and the courts from suggesting this. In this circumstance, I assume you will reverse your vote of Tuesday and you will cooperate with me to get our new Brexit deal ratified so we leave with a new deal rather than no deal.
If the EU offers the delay that Parliament has requested – that is, we must stay in until 31 January – then it is clear that there must be an election. We cannot risk further paralysis. In these circumstances, the Commons will vote next week on whether to hold an election to be held on 12 December. This would mean that Parliament would dissolve just after midnight on 6 November.
If you commit to voting for an election next week (in the event of the EU offering a delay until 31 January and the Government accepting, as it is legally forced to do by Parliament), then we will make available all possible time between now and 6 November for the WAB to be discussed and voted through, including Fridays, weekends, the earliest starts and the latest finishes.
This means that we could get Brexit done before the election on 12 December, if MPs choose to do so. But if Parliament refuses to take this chance and fails to ratify by the end of 6 November, as I fear it will, then the issue will have to be resolved by a new Parliament. An election on 12 December will allow a new Parliament and Government to be in place by Christmas.
If I win a majority in this election, we will then ratify the great new deal that I have negotiated, get Brexit done in January and the country will move on.
If you win a majority, then you will, I assume, implement your policy: that is, you will ask for another delay after 31 January 2020 to give you the time both to renegotiate a new deal then have a referendum, in which you may or may not campaign for your own deal.
It is time for MPs finally to take responsibility. More people voted Leave in 2016 than have ever voted for anything. Parliament promised to respect the referendum result. But Parliament has repeatedly avoided doing this.
Given this situation, we must give the voters the chance to resolve this situation as soon as reasonably possible before the next deadline of 31 January. We cannot risk wasting the next three months then this farce being replayed with yet another delay in January 2020 and still no way for the country to move on.
This Parliament has refused to take decisions. It cannot refuse to let the voters replace it with a new Parliament that can make decisions. Prolonging this paralysis into 2020 would have dangerous consequences for businesses, jobs and for basic confidence in democratic institutions, already badly damaged by the behaviour of Parliament since the referendum. Parliament cannot continue to hold the country hostage.
You have repeatedly said that once the EU accepts Parliament’s request for a delay until 31 January, then you would immediately support an election. I assume this remains your position and therefore you will support an election next week so the voters can replace this broken Parliament.
I am copying this letter to the other Westminster political party leaders.
Yours ever,
Boris Johnson
Last week, I agreed a new Withdrawal Agreement with the European Union. This is a great new deal which Parliament could have ratified and allowed us to honour our promises and leave by 31 October. Sadly you succeeded in persuading Parliament to ask the EU to delay Brexit until 31 January 2020.
On Tuesday, the Commons voted for our new deal but again voted for delay and, even worse, handed over control of what happens next to the other EU member states.
I have repeatedly made clear to EU leaders since I became Prime Minister that I believe any delay to be extremely damaging for the country and my view has never changed that we should leave on 31 October. However, it is clear from public and private comments of President Tusk that it is likely that the EU will offer a delay until 31 January, though it is possible that a shorter delay will be offered.
In our meeting yesterday you suggested that we propose a new timetable for getting the Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB) through Parliament.
This Parliament has, with your encouragement, voted repeatedly for delay. The vote on Tuesday was Parliament’s last chance to get Brexit done before 31 October and it voted, again, for delay. I am extremely sceptical this habit will change and many will doubt that this Parliament will do anything other than waste more time and then, in January, ask for yet another delay.
These repeated delays have been bad for the economy, bad for businesses, and bad for millions of people trying to plan their futures. If businesses assume that this Parliament will stay, paralysed, refusing to take responsibility for month after month into 2020, it will cause misery for millions.
It is our duty to end this nightmare and provide the country with a solution as soon as we reasonably can.
The EU may offer only a short extension, say to 15 or 30 November. This would, obviously, be my preference but I was legally prevented by Parliament and the courts from suggesting this. In this circumstance, I assume you will reverse your vote of Tuesday and you will cooperate with me to get our new Brexit deal ratified so we leave with a new deal rather than no deal.
If the EU offers the delay that Parliament has requested – that is, we must stay in until 31 January – then it is clear that there must be an election. We cannot risk further paralysis. In these circumstances, the Commons will vote next week on whether to hold an election to be held on 12 December. This would mean that Parliament would dissolve just after midnight on 6 November.
If you commit to voting for an election next week (in the event of the EU offering a delay until 31 January and the Government accepting, as it is legally forced to do by Parliament), then we will make available all possible time between now and 6 November for the WAB to be discussed and voted through, including Fridays, weekends, the earliest starts and the latest finishes.
This means that we could get Brexit done before the election on 12 December, if MPs choose to do so. But if Parliament refuses to take this chance and fails to ratify by the end of 6 November, as I fear it will, then the issue will have to be resolved by a new Parliament. An election on 12 December will allow a new Parliament and Government to be in place by Christmas.
If I win a majority in this election, we will then ratify the great new deal that I have negotiated, get Brexit done in January and the country will move on.
If you win a majority, then you will, I assume, implement your policy: that is, you will ask for another delay after 31 January 2020 to give you the time both to renegotiate a new deal then have a referendum, in which you may or may not campaign for your own deal.
It is time for MPs finally to take responsibility. More people voted Leave in 2016 than have ever voted for anything. Parliament promised to respect the referendum result. But Parliament has repeatedly avoided doing this.
Given this situation, we must give the voters the chance to resolve this situation as soon as reasonably possible before the next deadline of 31 January. We cannot risk wasting the next three months then this farce being replayed with yet another delay in January 2020 and still no way for the country to move on.
This Parliament has refused to take decisions. It cannot refuse to let the voters replace it with a new Parliament that can make decisions. Prolonging this paralysis into 2020 would have dangerous consequences for businesses, jobs and for basic confidence in democratic institutions, already badly damaged by the behaviour of Parliament since the referendum. Parliament cannot continue to hold the country hostage.
You have repeatedly said that once the EU accepts Parliament’s request for a delay until 31 January, then you would immediately support an election. I assume this remains your position and therefore you will support an election next week so the voters can replace this broken Parliament.
I am copying this letter to the other Westminster political party leaders.
Yours ever,
Boris Johnson
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:NoNeed said:
While that would be the right result for some of us, I can't see it ending there
Perhaps not.I look forward to him securing a deal having been given a mandate by the public only to then campaign against it.
We're so f
ked.If I was on the opposition benches I would push for Boris's WA and leave him weak so I could influence the future arrangement negotiations, but it appears they can't think ahead that far
NoNeed said:
That's the problem if Coryn wins we are back to square one as article 50 would be revoked.
If I was on the opposition benches I would push for Boris's WA and leave him weak so I could influence the future arrangement negotiations, but it appears they can't think ahead that far
I doubt he'd revoke as he's got his own party troubles to deal with.If I was on the opposition benches I would push for Boris's WA and leave him weak so I could influence the future arrangement negotiations, but it appears they can't think ahead that far
I wouldn't put money on anything at the moment.
It's all a total s
t show.pequod said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Perhaps not.
I look forward to him securing a deal having been given a mandate by the public only to then campaign against it.
[b] We're so fked. [b/]
You have repeated this twice in consecutive pages. Please explain?I look forward to him securing a deal having been given a mandate by the public only to then campaign against it.
[b] We're so f
ked. [b/] It is the express but supposedly those former Tory MPs who backed the government this week will be allowed to rejoin those who didn't will lose the whip permanently
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1194926/br...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1194926/br...
Nickgnome said:
pequod said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Perhaps not.
I look forward to him securing a deal having been given a mandate by the public only to then campaign against it.
[b] We're so fked. [b/]
You have repeated this twice in consecutive pages. Please explain?I look forward to him securing a deal having been given a mandate by the public only to then campaign against it.
[b] We're so f
ked. [b/] Unbelievable quite frankly!
This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by wkers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)
We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by w
kers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
digimeistter said:
Unbelievable quite frankly!
This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by wkers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)
We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
No religion, dreadful thing in my opinion. Just cold hard financial benefit.This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by w
kers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
More importantly how did you get on with reading the Bill and the process to ratify the same?
I trust you now understand the committee stage.
I’m not aware that the governments assessments state our economy will collapse. It will however suffer from constrained growth.
I assume you are busy investing for the long term and will understand that a small percentage over a long period has a huge impact.
In our case positively and expect you are eking out every 0.25% where you can.
Nickgnome said:
digimeistter said:
Unbelievable quite frankly!
This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by wkers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)
We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
In our case positively and expect you are eking out every 0.25% where you can.This whole sorry saga is because people actually believe our economy will collapse outside the EU, I mean really?
2 Prime Ministers, possibly 3, the Country paralysed by w
kers infighting in Parliament and now I'm going to have to vote at Xmas (if that happens)We are a laughing stock.
All because EU, which has now become a religion to some it appears.
However, you clearly think continued paralysis of the economy outweighs a potential 5% drop in GDP (worst case)
Remind me never to take financial advice from you please, there's a good chap
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:pequod said:
No, I'm wondering why BS is saying we are f*cked, twice.
Because the outcome is several year likely of Corbyn or Boris and more years of Brexit shenanigans just at different stages with different participants.A way ahead is now a priority irrespective of ones preference unless you are predicting years of self flagellation for the country?
pequod said:
Thank you, but I don't understand your negativity. We, surely, must get past this impasse in parliament and the Brexit or not conundrum which only a GE will resolve. Whichever Party prevails, and I cannot see any other than the Conservatives, the matter needs to move on to the next phase of negotiations whether than be leave or remain.
A way ahead is now a priority irrespective of ones preference unless you are predicting years of self flagellation for the country?
3 years of this sA way ahead is now a priority irrespective of ones preference unless you are predicting years of self flagellation for the country?
t and you don't understand my negativity? 
Corbyn isn't fit for office and his party position is a joke.
Johnson is a chancer who isn't fit for the office and his party have absolutely zero principles for anything other than power.
Johnson knows he can win a General Election yet a General Election should be about so much more than Brexit.
As highlighted by the very simple question of who should a Conservative voter who wishes to remain in the EU vote for in a General Election?
So yes, 3 years of a self-inflicted wound and no obvious way out of it and I do sometimes feel rather negative.
Struggling to see how I should be jumping for joy.
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