Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)
Discussion
psi310398 said:
XCP said:
Please explain how he was forced to ( at best) mislead The Queen?
Please explain how you can assert that he did mislead the Queen. So far as I know, neither has spoken about their conversation.
XCP said:
psi310398 said:
XCP said:
Please explain how he was forced to ( at best) mislead The Queen?
Please explain how you can assert that he did mislead the Queen. So far as I know, neither has spoken about their conversation.
tting the monarch. Tek him doon. Hic."would it be possible that this part 2 of the thread that we could be a bit politer towards each other ?
Perhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
Perhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
IforB said:
S1KRR said:
I don't think they realise how it REALLY plays. Telling the UK (Whether its Tusk or Verhofstadt or Veradker or Barnier or Juncker) that the UK will fail without the EU. Is not the best way to make the UK think "ooh st we must stay" 
Said it before, said it again. They should be asking us what would make us stay. What tweaks could they make to keep the 2nd highest contributor to their coffers? Can we change Freedom of Movement. Can we adjust the ECJ over reach. Can we reduce your contributions. Anything.
But No, they keep trying Project fear. Which didn't work out well for them last time. Definition of insanity...
Whilst I agree that the best thing for us to do would be to work with the EU and come up with a workable solution to keep everyone a bit happier (or a bit less unhappy) but remain in the EU, that isn't possible why the threat of Art.50 still exists.t we must stay" Said it before, said it again. They should be asking us what would make us stay. What tweaks could they make to keep the 2nd highest contributor to their coffers? Can we change Freedom of Movement. Can we adjust the ECJ over reach. Can we reduce your contributions. Anything.
But No, they keep trying Project fear. Which didn't work out well for them last time. Definition of insanity...
IforB said:
We have a situation where the Government is hell bent on us going no matter what and so what would be the point of saying "if you stay then..."
The idea is to a) Let Leavers get a victory (and the UK getting a points based FoM would be just such a victory that would turn I reckon a majority of Leavers into Remainers)
and
b) Unite the country. (Ultimately by ending all this division)
IforB said:
The EU are doing nothing. That is also understandable. We are the ones who kicked this off and we appear to be the ones who can't make our minds up what we want.
Deal, No-Deal, Stay.
The EU are doing the very opposite of nothing. Everything they do currently feeds into the narrative of them trying to bludgeon us into staying so they can keep getting our money and ignore our ( and other states) concerns. Always "More Europe"Deal, No-Deal, Stay.
The reason that Deal, then No Deal is STILL more popular than Remain is that they look like they want our money more than anything we have to say. The oft said quote of "Remain and Reform" doesn't look likely. EVER! You need the EU to Reform NOW. Then Remain gets a whole lot more appetising to EU opponents. They can no longer claim the EU doesn't listen.
But such is life. We may not leave in October, but unless the EU changes its tactics. We will be leaving, probably with no deal. And THEN it gets even harder for them to get us to rejoin. Since by rights we'd have to take on the Euro, and lose the rebate etc. How on earth could anyone actually sell that to the UK population?
techiedave said:
would it be possible that this part 2 of the thread that we could be a bit politer towards each other ?
Perhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
Not until certain troll posters are banned. For life from all Brexit threads. Keep to the facts (or as near as you can) Anyone using the terms "Remoaner" or "facists" "Nazi" " racist" "thick" "gammon" etc should be culled from now on.Perhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
Edited by S1KRR on Tuesday 17th September 15:50
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
vonuber said:
Or Luxembourgs current influence. He looks like a berk. I can't see any other PM being left hanging in the wind. 
irocfan said:
IforB said:
That internal conflict is what is making this such a mess and that internal conflict is entirely down to the way this whole thing has been gone about.
I do agree with this. In honesty I do wonder what the outcome would have been if, rather than the wailing, nashing of teeth and stamping of feet remainers had all turned round and said: "well this sucks, however let's all try and see what the best deal possible is and if we don't think that that is a good thing for the UK then torpedo it in the HoC". Y'know - come together, right now.I am/was a reluctant leaver but IMO the current mess is one made by vested interests not happy that 'stupid racists' (an oxymoron I know) dared to vote the wrong way.
Don't put the blame on just one group of people.
A sensible consensus would have been to take everyone into account leavers and remainers. As it was though, all us remainers have had from across the board is "you lost, we won and so you should like whatever happens."
No wonder people kicked off a bit about it.
Let us be completely clear about why we are still in the EU. Hardcore leave MP's decided not to support May's deal. They were the ones that ended up killing it. Now astonishingly, this means we are in this situation where we remainers have no choice but to fight hard to stop the stupidity of a no-deal.
Never forget that many of us who voted to remain (such as myself) didn't vote to remain out of love for the EU (which sounds like you and I are in the same boat), but because it was obvious that it would be a mess as our Government was so incompetent. Something that has been proved time and time again.
WCZ said:
IforB said:
What?
Really?
Dear Lord...
Let us look at the incontrovertible facts.
Since Johnson has taken over the following things have happened:
The Government has lost its majority.
The Government has lost every single vote put forward in Parliament.
Lifelong Tory grandees have been booted out of the Party without so much as a by your leave.
The Prime Minister's own brother accused him of not acting in the country's best interest and resigned as a minister.
The Government has numerous times refused to act in accordance with the law.
The PM has been found guilty of lying to the Queen. There is currently an appeal to try and overturn that, but right now he is guilty.
All of this in just a few weeks.
If that says competent to you, then your definition is somewhat different to mine.
these are all things he was forced to do to push through the will of the people (no deal).Really?
Dear Lord...
Let us look at the incontrovertible facts.
Since Johnson has taken over the following things have happened:
The Government has lost its majority.
The Government has lost every single vote put forward in Parliament.
Lifelong Tory grandees have been booted out of the Party without so much as a by your leave.
The Prime Minister's own brother accused him of not acting in the country's best interest and resigned as a minister.
The Government has numerous times refused to act in accordance with the law.
The PM has been found guilty of lying to the Queen. There is currently an appeal to try and overturn that, but right now he is guilty.
All of this in just a few weeks.
If that says competent to you, then your definition is somewhat different to mine.
he was left with no other choice
IforB said:
Let us be completely clear about why we are still in the EU. Hardcore leave MP's decided not to support May's deal. They were the ones that ended up killing it. Now astonishingly, this means we are in this situation where we remainers have no choice but to fight hard to stop the stupidity of a no-deal.
That's because it was utterly cr*pThat is why May will always go down as the worst PM of modern times, worse even than Blair and Brown, because she thought that was an acceptable agreement for her country to sign.
IforB said:
irocfan said:
IforB said:
That internal conflict is what is making this such a mess and that internal conflict is entirely down to the way this whole thing has been gone about.
I do agree with this. In honesty I do wonder what the outcome would have been if, rather than the wailing, nashing of teeth and stamping of feet remainers had all turned round and said: "well this sucks, however let's all try and see what the best deal possible is and if we don't think that that is a good thing for the UK then torpedo it in the HoC". Y'know - come together, right now.I am/was a reluctant leaver but IMO the current mess is one made by vested interests not happy that 'stupid racists' (an oxymoron I know) dared to vote the wrong way.
Don't put the blame on just one group of people.
A sensible consensus would have been to take everyone into account leavers and remainers. As it was though, all us remainers have had from across the board is "you lost, we won and so you should like whatever happens."
No wonder people kicked off a bit about it.
Let us be completely clear about why we are still in the EU. Hardcore leave MP's decided not to support May's deal. They were the ones that ended up killing it. Now astonishingly, this means we are in this situation where we remainers have no choice but to fight hard to stop the stupidity of a no-deal.
Never forget that many of us who voted to remain (such as myself) didn't vote to remain out of love for the EU (which sounds like you and I are in the same boat), but because it was obvious that it would be a mess as our Government was so incompetent. Something that has been proved time and time again.
A deal that a majority of mps think is a bad deal.
Just rename the eu to eu2.
Job done.
Then complain leavers are holding up the process.
techiedave said:
would it be possible that this part 2 of the thread that we could be a bit politer towards each other ?
Perhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
'twould be nicePerhaps cut down on the one upmanship and the constant belittling of others. Maybe forgo the endless accusations that such and such a poster is actually such and such who was banned etc
The only reason I ask is that there is so much bile and hatred at times it gets genuinely sad seeing it
JagLover said:
IforB said:
Let us be completely clear about why we are still in the EU. Hardcore leave MP's decided not to support May's deal. They were the ones that ended up killing it. Now astonishingly, this means we are in this situation where we remainers have no choice but to fight hard to stop the stupidity of a no-deal.
That's because it was utterly cr*pThat is why May will always go down as the worst PM of modern times, worse even than Blair and Brown, because she thought that was an acceptable agreement for her country to sign.
And of course sensible commentators would also wonder why it was those most in favour of leaving that weren't voting to 'leave'?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
philv said:
Mays deal, a deal created by the eu and given o a remainer pm.
A deal that a majority of mps think is a bad deal.
Just rename the eu to eu2.
Job done.
Then complain leavers are holding up the process.
I thought 80% of the Withdrawal Agreement was negotiated by David Davis.A deal that a majority of mps think is a bad deal.
Just rename the eu to eu2.
Job done.
Then complain leavers are holding up the process.
Earthdweller said:
IforB said:
You are aware that is a public street and they were fully entitled to be there right?
Maybe it was a public street, or maybe not Notwithstanding that the Police and security services have more than sufficient powers to close roads and distance protesters.
If they had wanted a Sterile zone they could very easily have had one
Most PMs manage just fine and talk over the protests. Boris seems to use any excuse to keep himself away from being questioned.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
I thought 80% of the Withdrawal Agreement was negotiated by David Davis.
And you would be incorrect. Davis and his team were in the process of arranging something. But May waded in with her BRINO idea with the support of the civil servants (doing as they were told) that was devised almost entirely by Brussels themselves! Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff