Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Mrr T said:
Seems you did not understand my post. Fairly standard brexiter.
Nope, you got caught boiling the numbers. I know we lock horns on finance etc, and indeed the running tally is Mrr T nil / 289,873 Stongle thus far - but if you want a bone do you to start on something easier?How many letters in Boris?
Shouldn't be hard, although I'm stealing myself for 2 as BREXIT makes us 50% poorer and we can no longer afford full names. Or 8, cos thats what it would've been if we stayed in.
pingu393 said:
Do you know how close the policies of Attlee are to the policies of Corbyn?
....
[Plus some historicallly inaccurate stuff]
Labour won the popular vote in 1951. The shonky electoral system put Churchill back in.....
[Plus some historicallly inaccurate stuff]
Read "Citizen Clem". If you live in the UK, then you still live in the UK built by Attlee, despite concerted attempts by neoliberals active since 1979 to dismantle that UK. Study Attlee objectively and you might conclude as many historians have that he was the greatest peacetime PM in UK history.
Corbyn, a man unfit to brush Attlee's hat, has little in common with the Labour Party that he and his crew have been burying lately.
Mrr T said:
s2art said:
Its not the EU. proposal Its Spain saying it directly. And its not just those already there. As I said I expect most EU countries to offer the same.
It's a Spanish offer to those retirees who are already resident in Spain on no deal. Which was very generous since the UK was not committed to continue to cover the costs. The WA formalised the position and requires the UK to cover the costs.Post brexit Spain is not going to pay for the healthcare of UK retirees unless the UK agrees to reimburse. At the moment the BJ government has not made its position clear.
Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 12th November 17:26
pingu393 said:
. . . I still think that Clem's six years are seen through rose-tinted glasses.
One way of checking Atlee's performance is to compare the way he ran post war Britain to the mess Lloyd George made of it after WWI. He was helped later with the task of increasing debt by Baldwin. One thing he did show was the power of a catchphrase. He promised a land fit for heroes. He did not deliver. Some suggest the landslide for Atlee was in memory of the hash LlG made of living up to his spin. It wasn't easy living under post war Britain with Atlee. He was for probity and moderation in all things, and the sacrifices forced on the population turned the country round, from being bankrupt - not like 2008, but really bankrupt - to a stable but expanding economy. I knew a chap whose job it was to plan for schoolchildren to go out in the fields to plant and to reap in 1946/7. It was a close run thing. Atlee's biggest mistake was not to tell lies, a lesson most mps seem to have learnt well. If he'd promised an end to rationing 'as soon as possible' people would have believed him. Not his way, evidently.
My parents brought up two kids during Atlee's spell in power. My father said that he ate almost as well as he had in the Army during the war, which for him was a massive improvement on his diet in the 20s and 30s. It was hard, my father said, but it felt it was fairer.
Nothing was going to be rosy after the war, and to Atlee's credit he promised it would be hard going. Britain came out owing money to a lot of countries, and having commitments it could not afford to honour, but did. Unlike Lloyd George's mess, Atlee managed to ensure that the heroes returned to a country that seemed to value them.
He did alright in his 6 years and 3 months in power. He had more influence on the UK than any other UK pm apart from Thatcher, and out of the two, it was Atlee who made fewer mistakes and built the NHS.
BOR said:
I'd ban you from the site for that, but I think you are amongst friends here.
Here's Corbyn's record in black and white, the facts:
Corbyn’s record
Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
blah blah blah
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party
This crappy list was discussed only a day or so ago and is a lazy effort from you. One of your 'black and white facts' was a motion to change a holocaust remembrance day to remove all reference to Jews in it so well done for quoting it as an example of Corbyn not being antisemiticHere's Corbyn's record in black and white, the facts:
Corbyn’s record
Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
blah blah blah
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party
Edited by chris.mod on Tuesday 12th November 20:22
that aside, your list records pieces of paper that a racist has signed and nothing more, you have a strange filter that you accept this as proof of the man's support of Jews, yet can somehow ignore all his allegiances to open antisemites, the lifelong Labour members and party grandees who have left the party and spoken out in disgust at Corbyn's racism and what he has allowed to fester on his watch, the fact that 85% of UK Jews interviewed recently fear a Corbyn government due to his antisemitism. I guess it's all a smear though eh?
Jews have been persecuted through the ages, scapegoated, shunned and exiled. I really thought those days were over as the horrors of WW2 were known, but in living memory of the holocaust and the gas chambers, people are rewriting history and downplaying it, denying it, and they are people who Corbyn shares platforms with.
And as for someone suggesting I may be pretending to be Jewish in order to pretend I am worried about Corbyn....do you really think it would be that hard to get a Jewish person on record criticising Corbyn.for being a racist. No question mark on that one.
Breadvan72 said:
A fair summary, Derek. The usual shouties will seek to rubbish it, in the usual way.
Thanks. I was brought up in a very political family, with a communist who fought with the International Brigade, and the very blue, against the NHS dentist side. Xmas get-togethers were often lively. History was a big subject. Very big. My father was apolitical, his attitude seeming to be that the war proved there was a lot of things that were more important than politics. When I joined the young tories he was surprised and a little disappointed. When I told him about au pairs he brightened up a bit, hopefully more for his views being followed than anticipation of me bringing home a foreigner in a short skirt. He, however, was full of admiration for Atlee, as was everyone in the family, even the dentist, and if things got a bit shouty, he'd turn the conversation to him and his doings.
I had an aunt, then around 60/65, who went all weak-kneed whenever Eden was mentioned. Very odd.
Tick, tick, tick.
Derek Smith said:
Breadvan72 said:
A fair summary, Derek. The usual shouties will seek to rubbish it, in the usual way.
Thanks. I was brought up in a very political family, with a communist who fought with the International Brigade, and the very blue, against the NHS dentist side. Xmas get-togethers were often lively. History was a big subject. Very big. My father was apolitical, his attitude seeming to be that the war proved there was a lot of things that were more important than politics. When I joined the young tories he was surprised and a little disappointed. When I told him about au pairs he brightened up a bit, hopefully more for his views being followed than anticipation of me bringing home a foreigner in a short skirt. He, however, was full of admiration for Atlee, as was everyone in the family, even the dentist, and if things got a bit shouty, he'd turn the conversation to him and his doings.
I had an aunt, then around 60/65, who went all weak-kneed whenever Eden was mentioned. Very odd.
Tick, tick, tick.
Edited by TheRealNoNeedy on Tuesday 12th November 21:12
TheRealNoNeedy said:
What Atlee achieved was great, the fact he did it in the most horrendous of conditions shows you just can't use the same measures as any modern politician as he would be miles off the scale, A true man of the people that not only wanted good for all but also knew how to achieve that.
Not surprising given he spent the war crossing the ts and dotting the is while Winston did his thing.Breadvan72 said:
A fair summary, Derek. The usual shouties will seek to rubbish it, in the usual way.
Absolute tosh. And I suspect you know it as a student of history.The late 40s were a battlefield between the left wing and the right. There were serious reforms and innovations (Beveridge etc) but as far as Bevan’s side of things were concerned the failure to nationalise the banking industry along with a whole tranche of the private sector was a betrayal of ‘45. That has always been the left wing perspective of Atlee: he bottled the biggest challenge. Whereas the rest of the country drew a breath of relief.
The issue was that by ‘50 the middle classes had been alienated. The election in ‘50 turned out a majority of 5 for labour: it was as only because labour went into the election with a majority of 146 that they held on.
Britain had experienced wartime socialism in peacetime and attempted to reject it. The ongoing existence of rationing was the direct result of labour policy: the poverty that the labour government drilled into the populace due to the deliberate spending priorities of the government meant that, yes, basic healthcare and education was established. But at enormous economic costs.
hidetheelephants said:
TheRealNoNeedy said:
What Atlee achieved was great, the fact he did it in the most horrendous of conditions shows you just can't use the same measures as any modern politician as he would be miles off the scale, A true man of the people that not only wanted good for all but also knew how to achieve that.
Not surprising given he spent the war crossing the ts and dotting the is while Winston did his thing.98elise said:
What's wrong with zero hours contracts? People are happier on ZNC than those with fixed hours. CIPD surveys back this up.
I work ZHC, as did my wife while she was employed. My son has recently got his first job in a pub on ZHC. They give him more hours than he actually wants, but at least he get to tell them when he's available rather then having to be there at fixed times.
Do you get paid sick leave? How much holiday do you get? Private health cover? Car scheme? Any perks at all, besides getting to say, "No thanks," to a shift you don't want? I think I'll stick to having some rights, thanks.I work ZHC, as did my wife while she was employed. My son has recently got his first job in a pub on ZHC. They give him more hours than he actually wants, but at least he get to tell them when he's available rather then having to be there at fixed times.
Nexus Icon said:
98elise said:
What's wrong with zero hours contracts? People are happier on ZNC than those with fixed hours. CIPD surveys back this up.
I work ZHC, as did my wife while she was employed. My son has recently got his first job in a pub on ZHC. They give him more hours than he actually wants, but at least he get to tell them when he's available rather then having to be there at fixed times.
Do you get paid sick leave? How much holiday do you get? Private health cover? Car scheme? Any perks at all, besides getting to say, "No thanks," to a shift you don't want? I think I'll stick to having some rights, thanks.I work ZHC, as did my wife while she was employed. My son has recently got his first job in a pub on ZHC. They give him more hours than he actually wants, but at least he get to tell them when he's available rather then having to be there at fixed times.
Mrr T said:
I would have assumed you understand most retirees are couples. Is that not the case for brexiters or do they normally retire alone?
You said .... “For the newly retired in good health quotes are £7/8k per annum.”
There’s no plural in that statement
You are being rather misleading and disingenuous
I live in the EU .. I have private healthcare.. for me and all my family it costs nowhere near that for the entire family
Nexus Icon said:
Do you get paid sick leave? How much holiday do you get? Private health cover? Car scheme? Any perks at all, besides getting to say, "No thanks," to a shift you don't want? I think I'll stick to having some rights, thanks.
Which you could apply to almost any contractor, self employed or small business. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff