Labour looking to remove Tom Watson
Discussion
CypSIdders said:
Because, the last time a national poll on the subject was undertaken support for leave ran to a grand total of 37.4% of the "people", hardly a ringing endorsement, by any estimation.
For blatantly obvious reasons, the "winners", from day one, have clung onto the 52% figure because it sounds so much better than 37.4%!
The will of the people runs at 37.4%, there's no getting around that fact!
Of course you'd be saying this if remain won 52/48.For blatantly obvious reasons, the "winners", from day one, have clung onto the 52% figure because it sounds so much better than 37.4%!
The will of the people runs at 37.4%, there's no getting around that fact!
biggles330d said:
Back on topic...
I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
I think you are right to a certain degree.We the voter can’t trust a word that politicians speak so we will vote on the previous form of each party when they were in Government.I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
CypSIdders said:
Because, the last time a national poll on the subject was undertaken support for leave ran to a grand total of 37.4% of the "people", hardly a ringing endorsement, by any estimation.
And the general election turnout, voting percentage and thus actual total vote of the "people"?biggles330d said:
Back on topic...
I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
I've just been listening to Matt Frei and was driving so perhaps wasn't paying perfect attention but he had a number of guests on who suggested that Momentum don't care about power and are more concerned about the ideological "purity of the Labour Party.I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
CypSIdders said:
Welshbeef said:
In any result why do the losing side always come out with the stat
Because, the last time a national poll on the subject was undertaken support for leave ran to a grand total of 37.4% of the "people", hardly a ringing endorsement, by any estimation.For blatantly obvious reasons, the "winners", from day one, have clung onto the 52% figure because it sounds so much better than 37.4%!
The will of the people runs at 37.4%, there's no getting around that fact!
Nice logic, did you think of it yourself?
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I've just been listening to Matt Frei and was driving so perhaps wasn't paying perfect attention but he had a number of guests on who suggested that Momentum don't care about power and are more concerned about the ideological "purity of the Labour Party.
Interesting. I have them down as power zealots and needing to control the rest in their image, have to dig out that Matt Frei bit for a shufty.Zirconia said:
Interesting. I have them down as power zealots and needing to control the rest in their image, have to dig out that Matt Frei bit for a shufty.
Sorry, I should rephrase, they care about having power within the party, total power, but not so much about being in government.Welshbeef said:
I used to think Ed Balls and Ed Milliband were thick/challenged. How I wish to have that calibre back in the Labour Party.
On R4 recently some members MPs were saying Loer Starmer was the most intelligent person they had ever met.
Then you had Angela Rayner the other week in that long debate apologise to Bercow “I don’t really know the rules but will speak my mind”. You’ve been there years putting your hand up claiming ineptness and then permitted to speak is baffling.
That was Jess Philips, easily mixed up as she is another thick Labour politician.On R4 recently some members MPs were saying Loer Starmer was the most intelligent person they had ever met.
Then you had Angela Rayner the other week in that long debate apologise to Bercow “I don’t really know the rules but will speak my mind”. You’ve been there years putting your hand up claiming ineptness and then permitted to speak is baffling.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's one of the things I find fascinating.
You look at the likes of Kier Starmer, Tom Watson, David Lammy, Yvette Cooper, and many others and I don't believe they see Corbyn as representing their vision of Labour values.
The question is, I guess, do they accept that outside the party system they probably have little chance of being elected, or is the assumption that Corbyn is a "bump in the road"?
The MPs voted against Corbyn twice in votes of no confidence. The majority of current Labour MPs dont reflect the party membership anymore, they have lost control of their party and wont be getting it back.You look at the likes of Kier Starmer, Tom Watson, David Lammy, Yvette Cooper, and many others and I don't believe they see Corbyn as representing their vision of Labour values.
The question is, I guess, do they accept that outside the party system they probably have little chance of being elected, or is the assumption that Corbyn is a "bump in the road"?
If they were honest, they would all resign and start a new party.
Welshbeef said:
They didn’t vote they chose not to as such they didn’t care on the result either way.
Do you know what the Yes to the 1975 vote was “the people”
Well 2016 72% turnout and a 17.5m yes vote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_201...
Only 43.44% of the people voted to join the European Commission in 1975.
So how do you (from your post I’m assuming your a remain voter / comes over that way) Square the circle? We should never have joined in the first place it wasn’t the will of the people
2016 37% to leave
1975 43% to join
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_197...
No one voted to join the EEC.Do you know what the Yes to the 1975 vote was “the people”
Well 2016 72% turnout and a 17.5m yes vote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_201...
Only 43.44% of the people voted to join the European Commission in 1975.
So how do you (from your post I’m assuming your a remain voter / comes over that way) Square the circle? We should never have joined in the first place it wasn’t the will of the people
2016 37% to leave
1975 43% to join
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_197...
Why do people continue to get this fact wrong?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:biggles330d said:
Back on topic...
I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
I've just been listening to Matt Frei and was driving so perhaps wasn't paying perfect attention but he had a number of guests on who suggested that Momentum don't care about power and are more concerned about the ideological "purity of the Labour Party.I'm going to watch in fascination how this next election plays out. I'm pretty sure much of the country remain's fair tribal in its politics regardless of the quite obvious self destruction of both main parties. In that sense, it honestly doesn't matter what anyone puts in their manifesto because the vote will go along tribal, not specific policy lines, never mind voting for your local candidate based on them acting in your interest and doing a good job which is actually how our parliamentary democracy works.
Who Momentum thinks they are appealing to, I've no idea. Corbyn's core audience must be a tiny niche that has little room for growth I'd have thought.
jsf said:
Welshbeef said:
They didn’t vote they chose not to as such they didn’t care on the result either way.
Do you know what the Yes to the 1975 vote was “the people”
Well 2016 72% turnout and a 17.5m yes vote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_201...
Only 43.44% of the people voted to join the European Commission in 1975.
So how do you (from your post I’m assuming your a remain voter / comes over that way) Square the circle? We should never have joined in the first place it wasn’t the will of the people
2016 37% to leave
1975 43% to join
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_197...
No one voted to join the EEC.Do you know what the Yes to the 1975 vote was “the people”
Well 2016 72% turnout and a 17.5m yes vote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_201...
Only 43.44% of the people voted to join the European Commission in 1975.
So how do you (from your post I’m assuming your a remain voter / comes over that way) Square the circle? We should never have joined in the first place it wasn’t the will of the people
2016 37% to leave
1975 43% to join
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_197...
Why do people continue to get this fact wrong?
I voted in the first referendum. What was offered was a 'Common Market' where it would be easier to export and import goods.
The British people were repeatedly assured that there was no intention of having a European Union, even though those same politicians knew at the time that this would happen in the future. Cabinet papers released since showed that they knew that the public would never vote for a 'Union' so they lied to get the vote.
I didn't realise this until I first saw a blue flag with a ring of yellow stars saying 'European Union' . I was shocked then because it was clear that we had been utterly betrayed. Treaties since then, over which I had no vote, have given away our sovereignty to unelected commissioners over whom we have absolutely no influence. Our MEP's do not have any power to change legislation, or even introduce laws.
There has never been a mandate from the British people to join a 'European Union' and I suspect this is the reason that the Leave vote won.
The British people were repeatedly assured that there was no intention of having a European Union, even though those same politicians knew at the time that this would happen in the future. Cabinet papers released since showed that they knew that the public would never vote for a 'Union' so they lied to get the vote.
I didn't realise this until I first saw a blue flag with a ring of yellow stars saying 'European Union' . I was shocked then because it was clear that we had been utterly betrayed. Treaties since then, over which I had no vote, have given away our sovereignty to unelected commissioners over whom we have absolutely no influence. Our MEP's do not have any power to change legislation, or even introduce laws.
There has never been a mandate from the British people to join a 'European Union' and I suspect this is the reason that the Leave vote won.
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