Lad killed by US wrong side driver, who's done a bunk...

[TEKNOPUG]

Earthdweller said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

but are you a very senior covert intelligence agent for your country’s spy agency working in a foreign country with diplomatic immunity?

If not it’s totally irrelevant

Neither is she!

[L1OFF]

It's a show trial, she will plead guilty (but won't attend) . Ban and suspended sentence. Box ticked and move on, nothing to see here.

[nickfrog]

Gareth79 said:

Would be interesting for a show of hands on here for people who have driven abroad and turned out of a hotel, car park etc. onto a road and suddenly realised they are on the wrong side.

It can happen to the best of us https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/palmer-convicted...

Still a separate issue from the fact that she was given a get out of jail card, which I find morally reprehensible.

[Muzzer79]

Dogwatch said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Disagree. She made a common error when driving in a country which drives on the opposite side to that which she is used to. Most people, self included, making a similar error abroad realise in time and get away with it. She was unfortunate to hit a gap in the traffic which allowed her to travel as far as she did. As commented, if her employer hadn’t whisked her back to the States this would probably have been settled by a non-custodial sentence by now. As it is I expect that whatever sentence she receives it won’t be enough for her family.

I don't think it's her crime that's the main issue - she made a mistake that is all too easily done. Although, I'm not too sure on the non-custodial part - she may have done a bit of time.

The main issue is the way she buggered off back to America without answering for her crime.

[pushthebutton]

nickfrog said:

Earthdweller said:

but are you a very senior covert intelligence agent for your country’s spy agency working in a foreign country with diplomatic immunity?

Do we know for a fact that she was?

Or just married to someone who might be?

I remember reading that DI being granted to spouses by the UK for activities outside the diplomatic premises and outside diplomatic activities as an oversight which was never corrected.

I might be wrong though but it does ring a bell.

Alan Turnbull(?) on www.secret-bases.co.uk did some research into her on request of the family IIRC.

I’ve tried to link it, but can’t get the site to open! I think he concluded that she effectively outranked her husband and has gone on to achieve further promotions since returning home.

[and31]

dundarach said:

Getragdogleg said:

She ran away and tried to get out of it.

fk her. Hope she gets a couple of years inside to reflect on how to not be a morally bankrupt piece of st.

That's certainly how I feel.

Same.

Can you imagine how different it would be if it was a British woman that did this in the US and fled back home to the U.K.?

[Earthdweller]

pushthebutton said:

nickfrog said:

Earthdweller said:

but are you a very senior covert intelligence agent for your country’s spy agency working in a foreign country with diplomatic immunity?

Do we know for a fact that she was?

Or just married to someone who might be?

I remember reading that DI being granted to spouses by the UK for activities outside the diplomatic premises and outside diplomatic activities as an oversight which was never corrected.

I might be wrong though but it does ring a bell.

Alan Turnbull(?) on www.secret-bases.co.uk did some research into her on request of the family IIRC.

I’ve tried to link it, but can’t get the site to open! I think he concluded that she effectively outranked her husband and has gone on to achieve further promotions since returning home.

I think it’s safe to assume she was working for the US Gov there’s loads of reports of it, even her lawyer stated in open Court in the US

“In an exchange with the court, Judge T.S. Ellis asked McGavin: "Are you saying that Mr. and Mrs. Sacoolas were employed by an intelligence agency of the United States, and that's why she left?"

McGavin replied: "I think that was a significant factor, certainly" in her departure from the UK. “

“In an unexpected move Friday, lawyers for the US government made a bid to suppress details of Sacoolas' employment in the interests of "national security," according to court documents publicly filed in Virginia and seen by CNN.”

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/uk/anne-sacoolas-in...

[Digger]

Smoke & Mirrors springs to mind!

[R56Cooper]

Gareth79 said:

KingNothing said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

She probably wouldn't have even got that if she'd stuck around and didn't leave the country.

Yup, although it was awful, she had a convincing reason for what happened, so a decent solicitor could have argued that she was working long hours, it was the evening and she was tired and after leaving the base (which was full of US people) momentarily forgot she was in the UK.. It was obviously not an intentional act or deliberately "ignoring the rules of the road". She may well have got away with a suspended sentence and it would have been a small article in the local papers.

I think the court is required to look at the case with a fresh mind though? So in theory what happened afterwards should not count against her. Whether that happens...

I think you're right. Court will consider the actual offence that occurred on the night. Although it resulted in a fatality, it still ranks fairly low in terms of criminal blame as it appears to have been a very unfortunate accident.

Hopefully the family can move on from this but it's a shame that they've had to endure so much.

[superlightr]

has she and the USA govt perverted the course of Justice?

Perhaps that should be added to her charge sheet.

[Ntv]

Dogwatch said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Disagree. She made a common error when driving in a country which drives on the opposite side to that which she is used to. Most people, self included, making a similar error abroad realise in time and get away with it. She was unfortunate to hit a gap in the traffic which allowed her to travel as far as she did. As commented, if her employer hadn’t whisked her back to the States this would probably have been settled by a non-custodial sentence by now. As it is I expect that whatever sentence she receives it won’t be enough for her family.

How long had she been living here when the collision occurred?

[mac96]

and31 said:

dundarach said:

Getragdogleg said:

She ran away and tried to get out of it.

fk her. Hope she gets a couple of years inside to reflect on how to not be a morally bankrupt piece of st.

That's certainly how I feel.

Same.

Can you imagine how different it would be if it was a British woman that did this in the US and fled back home to the U.K.?

Would the hypothetical British woman have been facing a prison sentence for an accident like this in the USA though? Not saying that it is unjust, merely wondering whether from a US perspective the possible penalty might look surprising or disproportionate.

[Gareth79]

freedman said:

Gareth79 said:

Yup, although it was awful, she had a convincing reason for what happened, so a decent solicitor could have argued that she was working long hours, it was the evening and she was tired and after leaving the base (which was full of US people) momentarily forgot she was in the UK.. It was obviously not an intentional act or deliberately "ignoring the rules of the road". She may well have got away with a suspended sentence and it would have been a small article in the local papers.

I think the court is required to look at the case with a fresh mind though? So in theory what happened afterwards should not count against her. Whether that happens...

A convincing reason?

What absolute tosh

It's not tosh, it's a fact, she has a better "excuse" in court than if it were you or I, and pretty sure would receive a more lenient sentence.

Perhaps I should have added "You won't like it, but..."

[silverfoxcc]

Yep, and when I hit a coach head on in Yosemite NP after pulling out from a lay-by. My act was not intention.,
However the Yosemite NP Police left me off after I gave them 340dollars
And I had been in the country less than 48hrs.. the next three weeks and 3k of driving I put a note on the front screen just to remind me!

[Gareth79]

silverfoxcc said:

the next three weeks and 3k of driving I put a note on the front screen just to remind me!

One trick I read was to put an elastic band on your right wrist - it's a continual reminder. Obviously you need to put the band somewhere you'll find it when you get back in the car, around the keys or gear shifter maybe.

You might think "well if you remember to put the band on then you'll remember to drive on the right" but I don't think it works like that. Yes you'll remember when you get in the car because you are getting into the opposite side, but will then have forgotten 30 seconds later when pulling out of the car park.

[MXRod]

I wonder if she had stayed and faced the music instead of scuttling back across the pond hiding behind “diplomatic immunity “ she might not be treated as a pariah in the UK , there is little chance now she will ever return , or the US allowing her to be extradited .Special relationship ? humm

[munroman]

Gareth79 said:

silverfoxcc said:

the next three weeks and 3k of driving I put a note on the front screen just to remind me!

One trick I read was to put an elastic band on your right wrist - it's a continual reminder. Obviously you need to put the band somewhere you'll find it when you get back in the car, around the keys or gear shifter maybe.

You might think "well if you remember to put the band on then you'll remember to drive on the right" but I don't think it works like that. Yes you'll remember when you get in the car because you are getting into the opposite side, but will then have forgotten 30 seconds later when pulling out of the car park.

I put a few turns of insulating tape on the 3 o'clock on my steering wheel when driving on the right, it's always under your hand as a reminder.

When I get back to the UK I put it at the 9 o'clock for a few days.

[superlightr]

Or a show of hands who have driven on the wrong side of a road and killed someone and then perverted the course of justice by fleeing the country?

[superlightr]

It's the same with breaking any road traffic law. A lot of times nothing disastrous happens but when it does then you face the consequences of the law and your actions even if you were negligent in that action.

Its not a simple fender bender this poor lad had his life stolen from him. She fled justice. Extridite her to face justice. Anything less is abhorrent IMHO.

[poo at Paul's]

All this talk of them being ‘spies’ is amusing. At the time of the incident, before the st hit the fan in the media, you could search their names and find tons of stuff on google, including his radio operators licence details, address, even the card details he paid for his licence with.
She came up with details of her Uk address, her college details in the US, details of where their kids went to school in Uk and where they had gone to school in the US, details of a similar driving offence in the US etc etc.

007 they ain’t!