Pizza Express - Next one to collapse?
Discussion
Lemming Train said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Lemming Train said:
eliot said:
Lemming Train said:
Close. It's Bidvest. So all mass-produced made in a factory for about 10 pence each by NMW eastern european's somewhere and then frozen and delivered once a week on an artic and flogged to you for £20 a time. The notiom some seem to have that they're freshly made in the back by a proper chef is 
.
Cant remember the last time i eat in a PE, . possibly 5-10’ years ago - but is that true? Surely cooking pre-made pizza would of been spotted and called out before?
PE don’t serve up cooked versions of what people buy in the supermarket. What evidence do you have that they serve frozen pizza?
DDg said:
Ok, help me out here. How does the whole PE thing work?
- I buy Pizza Express. It’s cost me £500 million and I’m now a little short.
- So I go to the bank with my Pizza Express wheelbarrow and borrow money, or issue bonds.
- I push the wheelbarrow full of cash back to my personal safe - call it a “special dividend”, heh heh.
- I also find some forgotten spare cash, so I lend that to the company at quite a stiff interest rate.
- The company now needs to pay back all that money to the banks, the bond holders and me, plus interest.
- They also have to pay me my “management charges”, which don’t come cheap.
- Pizza Express will struggle and may go pop, but I’ve got most of my money back plus a nice profit
Is this right?
- Surely banks and prospective bond holders can work out the ability of the company to repay loans, service bond debt, and won’t lend more / buy bonds?
- And is there no clause to prevent a “special dividend” payment if it too hinders the companies ability to repay debts?
All this may be a bit 6th-form-common-room, but I’d just like to know how it all works...
It's not quite how it appears in the PE literature, but it is close enough- I buy Pizza Express. It’s cost me £500 million and I’m now a little short.
- So I go to the bank with my Pizza Express wheelbarrow and borrow money, or issue bonds.
- I push the wheelbarrow full of cash back to my personal safe - call it a “special dividend”, heh heh.
- I also find some forgotten spare cash, so I lend that to the company at quite a stiff interest rate.
- The company now needs to pay back all that money to the banks, the bond holders and me, plus interest.
- They also have to pay me my “management charges”, which don’t come cheap.
- Pizza Express will struggle and may go pop, but I’ve got most of my money back plus a nice profit
Is this right?
- Surely banks and prospective bond holders can work out the ability of the company to repay loans, service bond debt, and won’t lend more / buy bonds?
- And is there no clause to prevent a “special dividend” payment if it too hinders the companies ability to repay debts?
All this may be a bit 6th-form-common-room, but I’d just like to know how it all works...
In an era of low interest rates (and therefore low rates of return), anything offering a decent yield (like PE 8.625% bonds) is likely to be looked at. Even though the investors are "professional, educated and good at this stuff" the need for the yield can tempt them in.
Some will offset the risk and some will only take a small amount relative to their overall portfolio. But the long and short of it is that the yield is based on the company's ability to generate cash and the repayment of the bond is most likely by a refinance - which relies on the market believing the company is good for the yield for another few years... In PE's case, it has arguably done a better job of selling bonds than of selling pizza
Roman Rhodes said:
Fairly certain they don't use frozen pizzas or even frozen bases. As others have pointed out, you can watch them shape the dough and add the toppings. The same applies to Dominos which you also claimed use pre-prepared pizzas (and they categorically do not). Perhaps you recall incorrectly?
I'd guess at having been in about a dozen different Pizza Expresses - not a huge number, certainly, but more than just one or two - and they all had kitchens you could see from the tables, and all made the pizzas freshly, including the base-spinning thing.Possibly the dough could be delivered frozen.
I'd put good money on the desserts being delivered frozen. Maybe it was those. Some of the tarts and cheesecakes would likely come in a pizza-box shaped box.
Roman Rhodes said:
Fairly certain they don't use frozen pizzas or even frozen bases. As others have pointed out, you can watch them shape the dough and add the toppings. The same applies to Dominos which you also claimed use pre-prepared pizzas (and they categorically do not). Perhaps you recall incorrectly?
No, I remember just fine, thanks. They came out of the front frozen compartment of the truck, not the chilled rear half so they were most certainly frozen. I have more important things to be doing with my time than arguing with you over it so believe what you want. 
Sporky said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Fairly certain they don't use frozen pizzas or even frozen bases. As others have pointed out, you can watch them shape the dough and add the toppings. The same applies to Dominos which you also claimed use pre-prepared pizzas (and they categorically do not). Perhaps you recall incorrectly?
I'd guess at having been in about a dozen different Pizza Expresses - not a huge number, certainly, but more than just one or two - and they all had kitchens you could see from the tables, and all made the pizzas freshly, including the base-spinning thing.Possibly the dough could be delivered frozen.
I'd put good money on the desserts being delivered frozen. Maybe it was those. Some of the tarts and cheesecakes would likely come in a pizza-box shaped box.
It would be a shame as I dont mind a Pizza Express. But whats their USP, where do they sit?
If I i just want lots of Pizza (half decent aswell, I find) then its Pizza Hut.
If I want something a little 'nicer' then we have a couple of local independents that cost no more than Pizza Express. There is also Gino's cropping up everywhere which seem very similar.
I have never heard of 'Franco Manca' or whatever it is, must be a regional/southern chain?
Interesting that some have mentioned the success of Nandos. Nandos DO have a USP - their payment model, where you pre-pay for your food, and each person in a group pays seperately if they wish. It hits the middle ground between fast food, and proper sit down restaurants. This makes it very popular with groups of kids/teenagers etc.
If I i just want lots of Pizza (half decent aswell, I find) then its Pizza Hut.
If I want something a little 'nicer' then we have a couple of local independents that cost no more than Pizza Express. There is also Gino's cropping up everywhere which seem very similar.
I have never heard of 'Franco Manca' or whatever it is, must be a regional/southern chain?
Interesting that some have mentioned the success of Nandos. Nandos DO have a USP - their payment model, where you pre-pay for your food, and each person in a group pays seperately if they wish. It hits the middle ground between fast food, and proper sit down restaurants. This makes it very popular with groups of kids/teenagers etc.
FM I believe are going to be a chain in Italy .Due to Italy not having any “chains” .But the money behind them think they can take a good % of the market . MY favourite FM is Covent Garden (Upstairs only ) . But the best pizza this year goes to Home slices “sweet corn purée with chorizo “ £20.00 for the god damm biggest pizza ever . Easily for 2 people or one fat b
d
d Roman Rhodes said:
EarlOfHazard said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Yertis said:
I love Pizza Express. I can’t honestly say I’ve ever had the crap service reported here, it’s like you’re talking about a different brand. OTOH Franco Manco is a wretched pretentious place and horrible eating experience. Yuk.
Which Franco Manca have you been to and what was the problem? I’ve always found FM more authentic and way superior to the mass produced offerings of PE and others like Pizza Hut.Big difference in prices though as FM pizza is under a tenner and PE are around 15 (if you go Romano at least).
I've used the O2 Priority at PE to get a £5 main meal (up to Thursdays I think?). Can't complain at those prices!
Nothing major against PE - it is what it is - but FM is a rather different proposition and one which I prefer.
snotrag said:
It would be a shame as I dont mind a Pizza Express. But whats their USP, where do they sit?
If I i just want lots of Pizza (half decent aswell, I find) then its Pizza Hut.
If I want something a little 'nicer' then we have a couple of local independents that cost no more than Pizza Express. There is also Gino's cropping up everywhere which seem very similar.
I have never heard of 'Franco Manca' or whatever it is, must be a regional/southern chain?
Interesting that some have mentioned the success of Nandos. Nandos DO have a USP - their payment model, where you pre-pay for your food, and each person in a group pays seperately if they wish. It hits the middle ground between fast food, and proper sit down restaurants. This makes it very popular with groups of kids/teenagers etc.
Surely most people wouldn't want to be seen in Pizza Hut... Don't get me wrong, I'm partial to a buffet occasionally but it is quite dirty/Council. If I i just want lots of Pizza (half decent aswell, I find) then its Pizza Hut.
If I want something a little 'nicer' then we have a couple of local independents that cost no more than Pizza Express. There is also Gino's cropping up everywhere which seem very similar.
I have never heard of 'Franco Manca' or whatever it is, must be a regional/southern chain?
Interesting that some have mentioned the success of Nandos. Nandos DO have a USP - their payment model, where you pre-pay for your food, and each person in a group pays seperately if they wish. It hits the middle ground between fast food, and proper sit down restaurants. This makes it very popular with groups of kids/teenagers etc.
I like Pizza Express. A lot lot better than Prezzo food wise, but Zizzi is perhaps a step above. It's just mid market pizza restaurant that appeals to everyone - families etc. Franco Manca is good value but very hipster, and limited menu/drinks menu when I've been.
The market is full, Canterbury which is mainly a student town with tourists in the summer has Prezzo, Pizza Express, Ask, & Zizzi. Plus a few independent Italians and a few other places that all do pizza.
I only eat in those places when with a voucher, taste card etc. but every time I do it's like the food comes from one massive kitchen and I just don't know which one I'm in.
I only eat in those places when with a voucher, taste card etc. but every time I do it's like the food comes from one massive kitchen and I just don't know which one I'm in.
Roman Rhodes said:
EarlOfHazard said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Yertis said:
I love Pizza Express. I can’t honestly say I’ve ever had the crap service reported here, it’s like you’re talking about a different brand. OTOH Franco Manco is a wretched pretentious place and horrible eating experience. Yuk.
Which Franco Manca have you been to and what was the problem? I’ve always found FM more authentic and way superior to the mass produced offerings of PE and others like Pizza Hut.Big difference in prices though as FM pizza is under a tenner and PE are around 15 (if you go Romano at least).
I've used the O2 Priority at PE to get a £5 main meal (up to Thursdays I think?). Can't complain at those prices!
Nothing major against PE - it is what it is - but FM is a rather different proposition and one which I prefer.
I liked FM so much I'd drag work colleagues there after work to try it.
Since then, we now have in Canary Wharf (where I worked at the time) and Bournemouth (where I'm from).
Pizza Pilgrims is also well worth a try if you're in London. And Home Slice (as has been mentioned).
HTP99 said:
Never got the fuss with Pizza Express, it is average and very expensive for what it offers, I've often wondered how it kept going.
My local one (Guildford) always seems busy though.
We've only ever been into one and weren't impressed. Very expensive for what it is and we found the food mediocre at best. My local one (Guildford) always seems busy though.
ChevyChase77 said:
Roman Rhodes said:
EarlOfHazard said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Yertis said:
I love Pizza Express. I can’t honestly say I’ve ever had the crap service reported here, it’s like you’re talking about a different brand. OTOH Franco Manco is a wretched pretentious place and horrible eating experience. Yuk.
Which Franco Manca have you been to and what was the problem? I’ve always found FM more authentic and way superior to the mass produced offerings of PE and others like Pizza Hut.Big difference in prices though as FM pizza is under a tenner and PE are around 15 (if you go Romano at least).
I've used the O2 Priority at PE to get a £5 main meal (up to Thursdays I think?). Can't complain at those prices!
Nothing major against PE - it is what it is - but FM is a rather different proposition and one which I prefer.
Roman Rhodes said:
ChevyChase77 said:
Roman Rhodes said:
EarlOfHazard said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Yertis said:
I love Pizza Express. I can’t honestly say I’ve ever had the crap service reported here, it’s like you’re talking about a different brand. OTOH Franco Manco is a wretched pretentious place and horrible eating experience. Yuk.
Which Franco Manca have you been to and what was the problem? I’ve always found FM more authentic and way superior to the mass produced offerings of PE and others like Pizza Hut.Big difference in prices though as FM pizza is under a tenner and PE are around 15 (if you go Romano at least).
I've used the O2 Priority at PE to get a £5 main meal (up to Thursdays I think?). Can't complain at those prices!
Nothing major against PE - it is what it is - but FM is a rather different proposition and one which I prefer.
Lemming Train said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Fairly certain they don't use frozen pizzas or even frozen bases. As others have pointed out, you can watch them shape the dough and add the toppings. The same applies to Dominos which you also claimed use pre-prepared pizzas (and they categorically do not). Perhaps you recall incorrectly?
No, I remember just fine, thanks. They came out of the front frozen compartment of the truck, not the chilled rear half so they were most certainly frozen. I have more important things to be doing with my time than arguing with you over it so believe what you want. ks. Weren't you the vehement anti-tipper on the other thread? Looks like your knowledge of back of house is as vanishingly small as front of house! I used to visit Pizza Express on occasion but around 50% of my last visits (this was a couple of years ago) have resulted in woeful customer service so we haven’t been back. Just a couple of my observations;
1) PE rely heavily on discount codes, which necessitates the high headline menu pricing; having invested so heavily in this approach it will be difficult to role back. A large proportion of their customers have been conditioned to expect a “discount”, so removing the discount and lowering the price of the menu is by no means risk free.
2) Customer service; this is where I think their debt position really impacts on their ability to run the business. They will be laser focused on operating costs in all areas including staff levels, and this unfortunately is having a detrimental impact on the quality of their profits and customer satisfaction. My wife and I have years of experience in the hospitality industry, and the last couple of times we visited you could really see the staff struggling; leaving their section to make coffees/deserts/drinks etc. without adequate cover. Spend per head is key in these restaurants; you really don’t want customers leaving after their main course without ordering deserts/coffee because service is slow/poor, which is exactly what we did. They may save £100 a day per restaurant on staff costs, but how much is that costing in terms of lost profit and reputation?
In attempting to extract the maximum profit out of the business they are entering a vicious circle from which they will struggle to recover.
1) PE rely heavily on discount codes, which necessitates the high headline menu pricing; having invested so heavily in this approach it will be difficult to role back. A large proportion of their customers have been conditioned to expect a “discount”, so removing the discount and lowering the price of the menu is by no means risk free.
2) Customer service; this is where I think their debt position really impacts on their ability to run the business. They will be laser focused on operating costs in all areas including staff levels, and this unfortunately is having a detrimental impact on the quality of their profits and customer satisfaction. My wife and I have years of experience in the hospitality industry, and the last couple of times we visited you could really see the staff struggling; leaving their section to make coffees/deserts/drinks etc. without adequate cover. Spend per head is key in these restaurants; you really don’t want customers leaving after their main course without ordering deserts/coffee because service is slow/poor, which is exactly what we did. They may save £100 a day per restaurant on staff costs, but how much is that costing in terms of lost profit and reputation?
In attempting to extract the maximum profit out of the business they are entering a vicious circle from which they will struggle to recover.
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