Brexit, what have you learnt

[Tuna]

Crackie said:

Regarding the use of Johnny Foreigner; it's still regularly used by supercilious dimwits on PH.........I don't recall seeing or hearing anyone else use it.

A phrase most often used by Guardian readers and protectors of the moral good - who think that that's the way that BNP supporters and the Colonel from Fawlty Towers talk.

[vonuber]

Tuna said:

A phrase most often used by Guardian readers and protectors of the moral good - who think that that's the way that BNP supporters and the Colonel from Fawlty Towers talk.

True. It's moved on to expressing disquiet at hearing multiple languages on a train.
Or posting selective pick pocket statistics.

[DeepEnd]

vonuber said:

Tuna said:

A phrase most often used by Guardian readers and protectors of the moral good - who think that that's the way that BNP supporters and the Colonel from Fawlty Towers talk.

True. It's moved on to expressing disquiet at hearing multiple languages on a train.
Or posting selective pick pocket statistics.

After this evenings disgraceful scenes at the football, perhaps not the best time to be playing down these things.

[PurpleTurtle]

That The University of Life really needs to have a look at the quality of its graduates on social media.

[Murph7355]

GT119 said:

Do you think foreigners generally feel welcome when they either visit or emigrate to the UK? Why is the term Johnny Foreigner still prevalent in the UK?

I think it will depend on many factors. I think some visitors/immigrants in some areas will have better experiences than others in this country. But on balance I think there is more to be positive about than negative (links posted above, volumes of visitors and immigrants etc etc etc).

"Johnny Foreigner" - when was the last time you heard it in use out in the public? Let alone common use. I suspect it's used more by those attempting to highlight excessive volumes of racism in this country than by actual racists. But who knows.

"many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back"? I seriously doubt it. Some? Probably - there are idiots everywhere I guess even Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have some too). Many millions? BNP looks to have less than 10,000 members. UKIP (if you really think they all feel this way) less than 600k votes last time out. You're going to need to find quite a lot more to get to "many millions".

I guess in the unlikely event that TBP get a few million votes at the next GE you might think the point proven. I won't

[anonymous-user]

Allanv said:

All SM is fake and no rational person would believe it, so a uni education is worth nothing if SM is accepted as the truth.

Erm that isn’t actually true ......

[Jonny_]

That moderate, sensible, considered and thoughtful political opinions are more or less non existent in 2019.

We've descended into an age of extreme views and tribalism.

[GSalt]

I've learned that asking a single question is unlikely to be a sound method of developing a complex solution afterwards.

With hindsight, it would have been better to have the debate about what people wanted as an outcome (i.e. the future relationship) before the vote on who wanted it. At the very least, to have had the parliamentary debate and indicative vote immediately after the result was announced and before Article 50 was triggered so there could have been no doubt about what sort of Withdrawal Agreement would pass the Commons. It would have strengthened the negotiating position.

Unity cannot be achieved by divisive politics. When there's a super majority radical long-term decisions can assume a mandate. When things are muddied in the grey areas either side of 50:50 the only path to a unifying decision is through compromise. The only politician that I can recall suggesting this in advance of the result was Nigel Farage, and he did a u-turn on this the morning after.

The public's perception of the cultural importance of certain sectors of business and industry is frequently inversely proportional to the economic importance of those sectors.

I've learned that I trust the British political system even less than I did before. It's a ballsed up historical pageant, masquerading as democracy, and unfit for purpose. It needs a radical reform starting with the premise that every vote should count equally - we all know that's not the case, it's very definitely a postcode lottery as to whether your vote will have any significant influence on the outcome.

.
It now looks likely we're headed for a 9-12 month extension, to give time for closing off the latest negotiations, a general election and a confirmatory referendum. The only decision is whether the election or the referendum come first. As a confirmatory referendum is dependent on a deal to confirm/reject, and no sane politician would want to be left holding the baby by winning an election before the referendum... I guess we should be putting a date in our diaries to revisit this thread the same time next year?

[dazwalsh]

GSalt said:

I've learned that asking a single question is unlikely to be a sound method of developing a complex solution afterwards.

With hindsight, it would have been better to have the debate about what people wanted as an outcome (i.e. the future relationship) before the vote on who wanted it. At the very least, to have had the parliamentary debate and indicative vote immediately after the result was announced and before Article 50 was triggered so there could have been no doubt about what sort of Withdrawal Agreement would pass the Commons. It would have strengthened the negotiating position.

Unity cannot be achieved by divisive politics. When there's a super majority radical long-term decisions can assume a mandate. When things are muddied in the grey areas either side of 50:50 the only path to a unifying decision is through compromise. The only politician that I can recall suggesting this in advance of the result was Nigel Farage, and he did a u-turn on this the morning after.

The public's perception of the cultural importance of certain sectors of business and industry is frequently inversely proportional to the economic importance of those sectors.

I've learned that I trust the British political system even less than I did before. It's a ballsed up historical pageant, masquerading as democracy, and unfit for purpose. It needs a radical reform starting with the premise that every vote should count equally - we all know that's not the case, it's very definitely a postcode lottery as to whether your vote will have any significant influence on the outcome.

.
It now looks likely we're headed for a 9-12 month extension, to give time for closing off the latest negotiations, a general election and a confirmatory referendum. The only decision is whether the election or the referendum come first. As a confirmatory referendum is dependent on a deal to confirm/reject, and no sane politician would want to be left holding the baby by winning an election before the referendum... I guess we should be putting a date in our diaries to revisit this thread the same time next year?

The only problem with a confirmatory referendum as you call it, is that the EU knowing that would serve up a st sandwich as a deal in the hope we reject it. The only way that would work is if the only two options on your confirmatory vote are deal or no deal. The remainers would lose their st over this if if didn't have remain on the ballot.

[rscott]

Allanv said:

That anyone that uses social media or believes mainstream should not be allowed to vote.

They are to easily influenced by the establishment and other people.

Forums are social media though, so perhaps you should quit this one too.

[Allanv]

rscott said:

Allanv said:

That anyone that uses social media or believes mainstream should not be allowed to vote.

They are to easily influenced by the establishment and other people.

Forums are social media though, so perhaps you should quit this one too.

PH is not social just read the threads, it is toxic.

[GSalt]

dazwalsh said:

The only problem with a confirmatory referendum as you call it, is that the EU knowing that would serve up a st sandwich as a deal in the hope we reject it. The only way that would work is if the only two options on your confirmatory vote are deal or no deal. The remainers would lose their st over this if if didn't have remain on the ballot.

The original referendum should have been Deal or Remain. This concept called "No Deal" doesn't exist - at best it's "No Deal Yet" and a choice of which section of the Irish population you choose to ps off the most. You might be too young to remember what that's meant within living memory. If people are frustrated after three years, then I have no idea how they'll cope with another ten years of uncertainty and changing rules as the UK negotiates with one country after another after another.

I think you're wrong about the EU. They've bent backwards to give more time to avoid No Deal, it's not in their interests. But even before the referendum we knew what they could not give up. If the boot was on the other foot the UK would have lost patience a long while ago.

But we shouldn't worry. BMW will be along any moment now..

any..

moment...

now...

[AW111]

Allanv said:

rscott said:

Allanv said:

That anyone that uses social media or believes mainstream should not be allowed to vote.

They are to easily influenced by the establishment and other people.

Forums are social media though, so perhaps you should quit this one too.

PH is not social just read the threads, it is toxic.

I've learned that there are people so stupid that they use social media to disparage people who use social media, without the faintest fking clue as to what the term "social media" means.

[Tuna]

DeepEnd said:

vonuber said:

Tuna said:

A phrase most often used by Guardian readers and protectors of the moral good - who think that that's the way that BNP supporters and the Colonel from Fawlty Towers talk.

True. It's moved on to expressing disquiet at hearing multiple languages on a train.
Or posting selective pick pocket statistics.

After this evenings disgraceful scenes at the football, perhaps not the best time to be playing down these things.

I should have put a smiley for the hard of thinking.

Not playing down 'these things' at all. Just amused at people claiming they heard the phrase "Johnny Foreigner" in public, who presumably live in a 1970's sitcom.

The abuse at the football last night was disgusting - and came from Bulgarian fans. I can only assume they were chanting about "Джони чужденец" (Google translate, so apologies - I think that reads as "Johnny is a foreigner")

[anonymous-user]

AW111 said:

I've learned that there are people so stupid that they use social media to disparage people who use social media, without the faintest fking clue as to what the term "social media" means.

[mike74]

Given that the vast majority of parliamentary debating time has been given almost exclusively to Brexit for much of that time, it's taught me how utterly pointless, irrelevant and unnecessary parliament and MP's actually are when it comes to dealing with all the other non-brexity, day to day stuff and running of the country.

The country has generally carried on functioning just fine despite our MP's seemingly dedicating almost all their time and energy to Brexit and no other issues.


It's also taught me that those most in favour of both leave and remain are wealthy, vested interests with no connection to ordinary working class people at all.

[227bhp]

Nothing.

[ChevyChase77]

SpeckledJim said:

ChevyChase77 said:

EmilA said:

People who I thought were friends turned out to be quite racist and used Brexit to really reveal their true view on a few topics

Perhaps some context would help here.

I've seen people call others racist purely and simply because they want immigration controlled/better managed.

If you want to control and limit immigration of mainly white European people into the UK you're a racist.

If you want to control and limit immigration of mainly black people from Africa, you're a faithful supporter of the EU.

If you want to leave the EU it makes you a "little Englander"

So by opening ourselves up to the rest of the World (with trade deals etc) Does that make EU countries "Little Europeaners".....

[loafer123]

GSalt said:

The original referendum should have been Deal or Remain. This concept called "No Deal" doesn't exist - at best it's "No Deal Yet" and a choice of which section of the Irish population you choose to ps off the most. You might be too young to remember what that's meant within living memory. If people are frustrated after three years, then I have no idea how they'll cope with another ten years of uncertainty and changing rules as the UK negotiates with one country after another after another.

I think you're wrong about the EU. They've bent backwards to give more time to avoid No Deal, it's not in their interests. But even before the referendum we knew what they could not give up. If the boot was on the other foot the UK would have lost patience a long while ago.

But we shouldn't worry. BMW will be along any moment now..

any..

moment...

now...

What sort of Deal are you thinking of, and why, given they don’t want us to leave, would the EU have cooperated?

[Turn7]

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

I have long thought the same. This fiasco has merely strengthened those thoughts .