Brexit, what have you learnt

[blueg33]

Allanv said:

Helicopter123 said:

I've learnt that the true value of a university education is the ability to understand difficult problems, to analyse and to identify spurious information.

A questioning mind can see through the "fake news" peddled on Social Media and will identify the truth.

But you still peddle twitter and facebook in your rants? So how do you justify your post?

All SM is fake and no rational person would believe it, so a uni education is worth nothing if SM is accepted as the truth.

All SM is not fake, that’s nonsense. Like any media a sensible person will cross check things and form their own opinion.

[toon10]

Max_Torque said:

BREXIT is much like religion.

You pick a side, based on zero actual facts, then manically support your completely arbitrary God, even if it means killing someone else because your made-up god is much betterer than their made-up god. Anyone who has an opposite opinion is quite clearly completely insane and needs to be killed to death to prove the point.

How dare you. My Brexit God is the right one. He teaches us via the medium of pure faith, that we should be kind to each other and Johnny Foreigners. If you disagree or blaspheme then I'll have you birched to prove it.

[chrispmartha]

blueg33 said:

Allanv said:

Helicopter123 said:

I've learnt that the true value of a university education is the ability to understand difficult problems, to analyse and to identify spurious information.

A questioning mind can see through the "fake news" peddled on Social Media and will identify the truth.

But you still peddle twitter and facebook in your rants? So how do you justify your post?

All SM is fake and no rational person would believe it, so a uni education is worth nothing if SM is accepted as the truth.

All SM is not fake, that’s nonsense. Like any media a sensible person will cross check things and form their own opinion.

Didn't AllanV say he never uses Social Media or watch TV a while back?

If so how does he know that it's all fake (which is a ridiculous statement in itself)

[GSalt]

loafer123 said:

What sort of Deal are you thinking of, and why, given they don’t want us to leave, would the EU have cooperated?

The only sort of Deal that would allow us to retain some of the benefits of membership would involve us retaining some of the responsibilities of membership. But that was very quickly ruled out by May after she took over from Cameron, and all talk of compromise arrangements (Norway Plus, ect.) was dropped and rapidly distanced from by the leaders of the Leave campaign after they won. Johnson initialled seemed to be flummoxed by the complexity involved in any sort of Deal, appearing even more unprepared than usual. His first forays around Ireland solutions were rejected, and if the latest briefings from both sides are to be believed the Deal he's currently pushing to get through is worse than May's Deal - yet he's already apparently gained the support of Rees-Mogg for it.

Maybe in twenty years time we're going to look back and realise that those leading the governments of the day were playing both sides. Instead of marketing a largely meaningless Prepare For No Deal campaign, they could have embarked much earlier on a campaign to sell the public on a compromise Deal, negotiate the detail and just get it done. No one would have been entirely happy, but no one could argue that they'd been entirely ignored. Instead a path of deliberate uncertainty has been plotted with the intention of allowing their backers to exploit markets for tremendous gain. Johnson will play the Nasty Johnny Foreigner didn't play fair card and blame the EU, WTO, UN... anyone he can think of, ride the whirlwind and hope he can cut a statesman-like path back to stability and prosperity.

[stongle]

People are arrogant to think / believe their opinion is fact. And that "cos" is a valid response to justify their position. Just because parliament is trying to get away with it – doesn’t mean you can bring that sort of nonsense into here. No Sir’eee.

[stongle]

Helicopter123 said:

I've learnt that the true value of a university education is the ability to understand difficult problems, to analyse and to identify spurious information.

Harvard and MIT disagree with your analysis.

[p4cks]

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

Down and out said:

Just how devious and childish fully grown adults can be when things don't go their way.

This.

[Composite Guru]

p4cks said:

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

Down and out said:

Just how devious and childish fully grown adults can be when things don't go their way.

This.

Me too.

[Troubleatmill]

Composite Guru said:

p4cks said:

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

Down and out said:

Just how devious and childish fully grown adults can be when things don't go their way.

This.

Me too.

This in spades.

And you want to do something with nefarious intent - give it a fluffy name.
"Check vote"
"People's vote"
"Government of Unity"

[P-Jay]

chrispmartha said:

blueg33 said:

Allanv said:

Helicopter123 said:

I've learnt that the true value of a university education is the ability to understand difficult problems, to analyse and to identify spurious information.

A questioning mind can see through the "fake news" peddled on Social Media and will identify the truth.

But you still peddle twitter and facebook in your rants? So how do you justify your post?

All SM is fake and no rational person would believe it, so a uni education is worth nothing if SM is accepted as the truth.

All SM is not fake, that’s nonsense. Like any media a sensible person will cross check things and form their own opinion.

Didn't AllanV say he never uses Social Media or watch TV a while back?

If so how does he know that it's all fake (which is a ridiculous statement in itself)

Obviously anyone on PH who say they never use SM doesn't really understand what SM is.

I think SM is more dangerous than we give it credit. We might think that FB is all Baby pics, Insta is the BS you want people to think your life is like and Twitter is there to Insult your least favourite celebrity - it's free and in exchange they get to squeeze the odd advert in, but it's the data they want, not the advertising space and whilst they're not selling your e-mail address and Pics of your Xmas tree to the highest bidder, they are allowing anyone who'll pay access to your attention.

So if you're posting with the word 'Holiday' a lot, expect to see ads for Holidays, or Travel Insurance, or Car Hire. It's fairly benign, they call it Ads relevant to you, but of course that goes both ways - it's subjects relevant to your ads and as they ads people are the ones paying, they're the ones being looked after.

I might be sizing myself up for a Tinfoil hat, but I think SM platforms have been very bad at vetting who they allow to do this, say you were in the Intelligence Service and you want to destabilise a nation that's not working in your interest. There's no point trying to air drop propaganda, you'll start a war, TV and Radio is way to organised and controlled (even Fox news puts the boot into Trump now and again) but SM is the new frontier.

It's the perfect weapon for causing disorder, it doesn't really matter to you if the Brits stay or leave the EU. Better still, bombard people on both sides with slick advertising for their chosen side, create friction so each side will either argue with the other, or Unfollow/unfriend/block anyone who doesn't agree with them, create that all important echo chamber and hey presto - 3 and a bit years of chaotic politics, a government without a majority, both major parties at war with themselves, lessor parties at war with each other.

I'm not saying Brexit is a plot to destabilise the UK, But if someone was plotting to destabilise the UK, it would be a great way to do so.

[andy_s]

P-Jay said:

...

Classic Surkov play.

[Bill]

Troubleatmill said:

This in spades.

And you want to do something with nefarious intent - give it a fluffy name.
"Check vote"
"People's vote"
"Government of Unity"

"Prorogation"

[Jaguar steve]

Troubleatmill said:

Composite Guru said:

p4cks said:

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

Down and out said:

Just how devious and childish fully grown adults can be when things don't go their way.

This.

Me too.

This in spades.

And you want to do something with nefarious intent - give it a fluffy name.
"Check vote"
"People's vote"
"Government of Unity"

Yup, I'm onboard with this too.

The only person ever to enter the Palace of Westminster with truly honest and noble intentions was Guy Fawkes.

[PurpleTurtle]

P-Jay said:

chrispmartha said:

blueg33 said:

Allanv said:

Helicopter123 said:

I've learnt that the true value of a university education is the ability to understand difficult problems, to analyse and to identify spurious information.

A questioning mind can see through the "fake news" peddled on Social Media and will identify the truth.

But you still peddle twitter and facebook in your rants? So how do you justify your post?

All SM is fake and no rational person would believe it, so a uni education is worth nothing if SM is accepted as the truth.

All SM is not fake, that’s nonsense. Like any media a sensible person will cross check things and form their own opinion.

Didn't AllanV say he never uses Social Media or watch TV a while back?

If so how does he know that it's all fake (which is a ridiculous statement in itself)

Obviously anyone on PH who say they never use SM doesn't really understand what SM is.

I think SM is more dangerous than we give it credit. We might think that FB is all Baby pics, Insta is the BS you want people to think your life is like and Twitter is there to Insult your least favourite celebrity - it's free and in exchange they get to squeeze the odd advert in, but it's the data they want, not the advertising space and whilst they're not selling your e-mail address and Pics of your Xmas tree to the highest bidder, they are allowing anyone who'll pay access to your attention.

So if you're posting with the word 'Holiday' a lot, expect to see ads for Holidays, or Travel Insurance, or Car Hire. It's fairly benign, they call it Ads relevant to you, but of course that goes both ways - it's subjects relevant to your ads and as they ads people are the ones paying, they're the ones being looked after.

I might be sizing myself up for a Tinfoil hat, but I think SM platforms have been very bad at vetting who they allow to do this, say you were in the Intelligence Service and you want to destabilise a nation that's not working in your interest. There's no point trying to air drop propaganda, you'll start a war, TV and Radio is way to organised and controlled (even Fox news puts the boot into Trump now and again) but SM is the new frontier.

It's the perfect weapon for causing disorder, it doesn't really matter to you if the Brits stay or leave the EU. Better still, bombard people on both sides with slick advertising for their chosen side, create friction so each side will either argue with the other, or Unfollow/unfriend/block anyone who doesn't agree with them, create that all important echo chamber and hey presto - 3 and a bit years of chaotic politics, a government without a majority, both major parties at war with themselves, lessor parties at war with each other.

I'm not saying Brexit is a plot to destabilise the UK, But if someone was plotting to destabilise the UK, it would be a great way to do so.

So have you seen The Great Hack?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX8GxLP1FHo

Thought provoking stuff.

[GSalt]

Jaguar steve said:

The only person ever to enter the Palace of Westminster with truly honest and noble intentions was Guy Fawkes.

An English mercenary funded by an enemy foreign power to depose the monarch, destroy the system of government, and incite a religious civil war?

That's a strange definition of "honest and noble".

[loafer123]

GSalt said:

loafer123 said:

What sort of Deal are you thinking of, and why, given they don’t want us to leave, would the EU have cooperated?

The only sort of Deal that would allow us to retain some of the benefits of membership would involve us retaining some of the responsibilities of membership. But that was very quickly ruled out by May after she took over from Cameron, and all talk of compromise arrangements (Norway Plus, ect.) was dropped and rapidly distanced from by the leaders of the Leave campaign after they won. Johnson initialled seemed to be flummoxed by the complexity involved in any sort of Deal, appearing even more unprepared than usual. His first forays around Ireland solutions were rejected, and if the latest briefings from both sides are to be believed the Deal he's currently pushing to get through is worse than May's Deal - yet he's already apparently gained the support of Rees-Mogg for it.

Maybe in twenty years time we're going to look back and realise that those leading the governments of the day were playing both sides. Instead of marketing a largely meaningless Prepare For No Deal campaign, they could have embarked much earlier on a campaign to sell the public on a compromise Deal, negotiate the detail and just get it done. No one would have been entirely happy, but no one could argue that they'd been entirely ignored. Instead a path of deliberate uncertainty has been plotted with the intention of allowing their backers to exploit markets for tremendous gain. Johnson will play the Nasty Johnny Foreigner didn't play fair card and blame the EU, WTO, UN... anyone he can think of, ride the whirlwind and hope he can cut a statesman-like path back to stability and prosperity.

That doesn't really answer my question at all.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Turn7 said:

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

I have long thought the same. This fiasco has merely strengthened those thoughts .

The 20 odd Tory MPs who recently voted against the govt and got kicked out of the party, including my own MP who says he now won't stand at the next election, how exactly are they self serving scum?

[Mothersruin]

Not read the thread so no doubt mirroring others.

What have I learnt?

The current political set up is a shambles - every element of the HoC, HoL & Government is broken. From the people that make it to the mechanisms it operates by.

Normally, shining a billion lumen spotlight on something would normally be the catalyst for change, but nothing will. The average punter will still be held in utter contempt while they work out how to hide their actions better and be paid more for doing so.

[SpeckledJim]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Turn7 said:

paulw123 said:

I’ve learnt most politicians are self serving scum

I have long thought the same. This fiasco has merely strengthened those thoughts .

The 20 odd Tory MPs who recently voted against the govt and got kicked out of the party, including my own MP who says he now won't stand at the next election, how exactly are they self serving scum?

I wouldn't use that phrase (quite) but they stood for, and won, seats under a promise they didn't believe in, and wouldn't subsequently stand up for.

Arguably the reason they did that was because if they knew if they'd been honest about their beliefs, they wouldn't have won the seat. Otherwise, why not just be honest?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mothersruin said:

The average punter will still be held in utter contempt

The average punter should not be held in utter contempt, but at the same time, should not be given a vote in a referendum on a vitally important issue. The average punter is no where near bright enough to grasp even the very basics of what he/she is being asked to vote on.