Brexit, what have you learnt
Discussion
Tuna said:
I believe it's a matter of record that the EU are progressively removing vetos?
They're recognised as causing big problems for the bloc (see the South American trade deal as a recent example), and the stated goal is to replace them with less binary voting methods. I think people like Helicopter describes that sort of thing as "extra democracy"
A widely unsupported proposal from Juncker is not a matter of record. They're recognised as causing big problems for the bloc (see the South American trade deal as a recent example), and the stated goal is to replace them with less binary voting methods. I think people like Helicopter describes that sort of thing as "extra democracy"
fridaypassion said:
The irony with this whole Brexit thing is that it's been so divisive but will in reality make very little difference to anyone.
Unless you're an EU citizen living, or family member of, in the UK.Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
blueg33 said:
Tuna said:
I believe it's a matter of record that the EU are progressively removing vetos?
They're recognised as causing big problems for the bloc (see the South American trade deal as a recent example), and the stated goal is to replace them with less binary voting methods. I think people like Helicopter describes that sort of thing as "extra democracy"
A widely unsupported proposal from Juncker is not a matter of record. They're recognised as causing big problems for the bloc (see the South American trade deal as a recent example), and the stated goal is to replace them with less binary voting methods. I think people like Helicopter describes that sort of thing as "extra democracy"
How does this not qualify as a "matter of record"?
europa said:
The EU has moved gradually from unanimity to qualified majority voting many times in its history. First introduced by the
Single European Act, qualified majority is today the standard voting rule for EU decision-making.
Single European Act, qualified majority is today the standard voting rule for EU decision-making.
What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
GSalt said:
What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
Good recipe for the success of any new extreme political party , Remain can raise a few quislings traitors and The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
thousands of rent a mob /useful idiots ... leave have the ballot box ...
blueg33 said:
A widely unsupported proposal from Juncker is not a matter of record.
Strawman. See the 'direction of travel' towards QMV. This isn't an 'anit-UK' thing at all, and probably the proper reaction to the huge problems vetos have caused within the block, especially during trade negotiations. However, to claim we'd return to our previous 'special child' relationship is ignoring the changes that are already being undertaken in the EU.GSalt said:
fridaypassion said:
The irony with this whole Brexit thing is that it's been so divisive but will in reality make very little difference to anyone.
Unless you're an EU citizen living, or family member of, in the UK.Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
Those of us who had intended to move to another EU country and work remotely in the near future (family commitments make it impossible right now, else I would be there already)
yes, I'm affected
So is my friend who has lived and worked in Geneva for long enough that he wasn't permitted a vote, despite the UK being the only country he would automatically have a right to live in post-brexit. As it is he's managed to sort out Swiss citizenship, but it's definitely affected him and he wasn't even permitted a say.
I've learnt that leaving the EU is terrible for former MPs future employment and career prospects.
And having heard nothing but politics in the news for the last 3 years I'm still adamant more politicians is not what Europe (or the world) needs to solve problems.
To me its not about the advantage/disadvantages of the current EU setup. It's the general direction of travel the EU is heading in. Which is more of it, everywhere.
It's not a future I find particularly appealing. Will it be painful financially leaving? Maybe.
But there is more to my own decision making processes beyond short term financial gain.
And having heard nothing but politics in the news for the last 3 years I'm still adamant more politicians is not what Europe (or the world) needs to solve problems.
To me its not about the advantage/disadvantages of the current EU setup. It's the general direction of travel the EU is heading in. Which is more of it, everywhere.
It's not a future I find particularly appealing. Will it be painful financially leaving? Maybe.
But there is more to my own decision making processes beyond short term financial gain.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not really a problem though is it? It will all take whatever time it needs to, to get it sorted outHow much time was taken to negotiate, and organize trade deals after the UK was taken into the EU without the consent either way of the people of the UK?
No one was worrying then, about how long such deals might take. It just happened in due course. as such deals will now sort themselves out after the UK has left the EU.
Why are people so panicky now about the time taken to sort out of trade details?
Schmed said:
That remoaners are undemocratic?
That remoaners are underhanded snakes?
That remoaners ignore majority opinions?
That remoaners are destroying our democratic institutions?
Anyway this was on the other thread and made me laugh. What a
...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JXgIFF2AWaw
Enjoy the short lived EU trough you utter...
Kindergarden is that way ----->That remoaners are underhanded snakes?
That remoaners ignore majority opinions?
That remoaners are destroying our democratic institutions?
Anyway this was on the other thread and made me laugh. What a
...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JXgIFF2AWaw
Enjoy the short lived EU trough you utter
...GSalt said:
What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
The difference is that up and until now the leavers have been more or less quietly waiting, and expecting the government to do what it would said it would do with regard to the result of the 2016 democratic vote.The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
If the anti democratic remainers were unhappy with the result of the democratic peoples vote of 2016, how unhappy do you think those who respect democracy will be, if the result of 2016 referendum is over turned by the anti democratic remainers?
The process has not finished yet, and leavers are patiently waiting to see what the outcome of the democratic vote will be, Which is much better behavior, than that displayed by the anti democratic remainers.
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Tuesday 22 October 12:57
GSalt said:
What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
Remarkable conclusion to draw when the time to get off the sofa and really affect the result was on Referendum Day. The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
And your side did it in fewer numbers than the side you're now calling lazy.
SpeckledJim said:
GSalt said:
What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?
The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
Remarkable conclusion to draw when the time to get off the sofa and really affect the result was on Referendum Day. The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.
It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.
And your side did it in fewer numbers than the side you're now calling lazy.
Not forgetting that the government gave those too lazy to get their a*ses off the sofa extra time to get their votes in.
Let us not forget that BOTH sides used lies to enhance their campaigns.
And lets not forget that the government allowed the remain side to spend more on their campaign than they allowed the leave side to do, But remain STILL lost!
feef said:
Those of us who were about to start a new business relying on imports from the EU (we don't make the chemicals here and the tariffs from outside the EU or from other countries post Brexit in the absence of a trade deal don't make it financially viable at this stage)
Those of us who had intended to move to another EU country and work remotely in the near future (family commitments make it impossible right now, else I would be there already)
yes, I'm affected
So is my friend who has lived and worked in Geneva for long enough that he wasn't permitted a vote, despite the UK being the only country he would automatically have a right to live in post-brexit. As it is he's managed to sort out Swiss citizenship, but it's definitely affected him and he wasn't even permitted a say.
You are affected by the uncertainty you aren't affected by the UK being in or out of the EU. We are incredibly unlikely to have tariffs with the EU but I can understand the reluctance to take the gamble right now. Unfortunately we still won't really know where we are with that until at least the end of next year and possibly beyond but worst case you will get 18 months as we are now. Those of us who had intended to move to another EU country and work remotely in the near future (family commitments make it impossible right now, else I would be there already)
yes, I'm affected
So is my friend who has lived and worked in Geneva for long enough that he wasn't permitted a vote, despite the UK being the only country he would automatically have a right to live in post-brexit. As it is he's managed to sort out Swiss citizenship, but it's definitely affected him and he wasn't even permitted a say.
Same with movement of citizens you are likely to heave no trouble living in Spain in a couple of years time if you wanted to but we won't know that until the actual Brexit negitiations start which of course they haven't yet.
GSalt said:
Unless you're an EU citizen living, or family member of, in the UK.
Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
Well it might affect new people wanting to come in but for the foreseeable future nobody is affected as we don't know what the future arrangements will be. These are all very complex issues that the debate hasn't really started on yet. Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
We are in for a decade of all this stuff I'm not sure people generally understand the gravity of the process and the time it will take to fully work through.
At the moment the transitional period expires at the end of 2020 but its already anticipated we will extend that so for all the talk of Brexit happening at the end of this month its only the start of the next steps. Typically trade negotiations take years so we will probably need 2 to 3 years to sort that out. During the next period I dont think it's clear on exactly what people can and can't do in terms of movement/work/ settling. There will be an outline set out in the deal they are trying to push through today.
Latest is that if the timetable motion isn't voted through its extension and GE so we probably find out today if we are coming out or not.
I would put money on
Deal voted down
GE
GE totally doesn't pan out how people think it will (brexit party will split the conservative vote)
Libdems form coalition with Labour and there's another referendum which will almost certainly see us remain.
Let's hope we all still have businesses and jobs by the end of that completely pointless process.
fridaypassion said:
GSalt said:
Unless you're an EU citizen living, or family member of, in the UK.
Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
Well it might affect new people wanting to come in but for the foreseeable future nobody is affected as we don't know what the future arrangements will be. These are all very complex issues that the debate hasn't really started on yet. Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
It may be a complex issue, but you could at least make an attempt to keep up.
GSalt said:
fridaypassion said:
GSalt said:
Unless you're an EU citizen living, or family member of, in the UK.
Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
Well it might affect new people wanting to come in but for the foreseeable future nobody is affected as we don't know what the future arrangements will be. These are all very complex issues that the debate hasn't really started on yet. Unless you're a UK citizen, or family member of, living in the UK.
Unless you're living in Northern Ireland.
And that's just the first 6 million people that come to mind.
It may be a complex issue, but you could at least make an attempt to keep up.
Get some perspective ffs.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff