Brexit, what have you learnt

[toon10]

1974nc said:

Look at the net contributor/receiver ratio to member states.
I appreciate you love the EU but why we can not stand alone as a country beggars belief.
Even the receiver states of the EU don’t particularly like the bloc.

I appreciate the contribution issue is a factor for some and I have no issue with that. We do pay a lot of money. We get free trade within the EU in return amongst other things but yes, it is an argument.

I don't love the EU. In fact, I am well aware of a lot of the issues. I voted to remain because I understand a little about trade and knew we would be worse off if we left without a deal and even then, any deal wasn't going to be as favourable as what we already have. I also had no faith that our government would be able to unpick the complex ties and get us in an acceptable position and still concentrate on the things that need fixing in UK.

I can't really comment on your last point. I'm not familiar with surveys or polls taken in other countries on how they feel towards the EU.

[PositronicRay]

1974nc said:

That we as a country are terrified of self governance and the work it entails at parliamentary level so it’s easier to be a slave colony of another country.
I doubt any other countries in the world would be so happy to give up their independence.
Also the brass neck of MP’s who openly defy their constituents because of personal benefit to themselves and be damned to everyone else. These people should not have the jobs they are paid to do.

Okay.

[MC Bodge]

1974nc said:

That we as a country are terrified of self governance and the work it entails at parliamentary level so it’s easier to be a slave colony of another country.
I doubt any other countries in the world would be so happy to give up their independence.
Also the brass neck of MP’s who openly defy their constituents because of personal benefit to themselves and be damned to everyone else. These people should not have the jobs they are paid to do.

That is a very unusual reading of the situation.

With views like that in the population, no wonder we are in such a mess. How can MPs hope to satisfy such people?

[amusingduck]

MC Bodge said:

selym said:

Democracy is being redefined as we speak - the UK will soon have a vastly different (wrong) appreciation of democracy to the rest of the world.

The UK has a parliamentary democracy. Unfortunately, somebody threw in a poorly thought-out hand grenade/act of direct democracy and asked the Parliament to sort it out afterwards.

That's an odd way to describe 500+ MPs voting in favour of holding a referendum if you ask me

[MC Bodge]

1974nc said:

Look at the net contributor/receiver ratio to member states.
I appreciate you love the EU but why we can not stand alone as a country beggars belief.
Even the receiver states of the EU don’t particularly like the bloc.

This is one of the issues.

People who wish to remain don't "love" the EU. It is an administrative arrangement.

Just because some appear to "hate" the EU, it doesnt mean that a wish to remain is the opposite emotionally.

[chrispmartha]

MC Bodge said:

1974nc said:

Look at the net contributor/receiver ratio to member states.
I appreciate you love the EU but why we can not stand alone as a country beggars belief.
Even the receiver states of the EU don’t particularly like the bloc.

This is one of the issues.

People who wish to remain don't "love" the EU. It is an administrative arrangement.

Just because some appear to "hate" the EU, it doesnt mean that a wish to remain is the opposite emotionally.

Quite, it’s bizarre that leavers come out with this ‘love the EU’ line.

I neither love nor hate it, it’s just a thing that I happen to think on balance we are better being part of.

It strikes me that some on here think that the views on here aren’t somehow at the extreme ends, a hell of a lot of people won’t have such string views either way or at least didn’t a few years ago, part of the problem is people are being whipped up to a frenzy about something that really hasn’t affected their lives so far at all.

The view that the country will collapse if we leave is just as absurd as the view that we are slaves and ruled by the EU or ‘krauts’ as Leave.eu framed it

[anonymous-user]

MC Bodge said:

1974nc said:

Look at the net contributor/receiver ratio to member states.
I appreciate you love the EU but why we can not stand alone as a country beggars belief.
Even the receiver states of the EU don’t particularly like the bloc.

This is one of the issues.

People who wish to remain don't "love" the EU. It is an administrative arrangement.

Just because some appear to "hate" the EU, it doesnt mean that a wish to remain is the opposite emotionally.

It’s far more than an ‘administrative arrangement’. If only what you say were true.

We’ve seen clearly over recent years that the EU is moving towards its stated aim of being a federation of states that will be governed from Brussels with few directly elected decision makers.

As for the earlier comments about slaves, I think many Greeks would have a view on that, and it wouldn’t be positive.

[chrispmartha]

REALIST123 said:

MC Bodge said:

1974nc said:

Look at the net contributor/receiver ratio to member states.
I appreciate you love the EU but why we can not stand alone as a country beggars belief.
Even the receiver states of the EU don’t particularly like the bloc.

This is one of the issues.

People who wish to remain don't "love" the EU. It is an administrative arrangement.

Just because some appear to "hate" the EU, it doesnt mean that a wish to remain is the opposite emotionally.

It’s far more than an ‘administrative arrangement’. If only what you say were true.

We’ve seen clearly over recent years that the EU is moving towards its stated aim of being a federation of states that will be governed from Brussels with few directly elected decision makers.

As for the earlier comments about slaves, I think many Greeks would have a view on that, and it wouldn’t be positive.

You implied we were a slave colony of another country. Just because I think that’s a load of hyperbolic twaddle doesn’t mean I ‘love the EU’

[toon10]

REALIST123 said:

It’s far more than an ‘administrative arrangement’. If only what you say were true.

We’ve seen clearly over recent years that the EU is moving towards its stated aim of being a federation of states that will be governed from Brussels with few directly elected decision makers.

As for the earlier comments about slaves, I think many Greeks would have a view on that, and it wouldn’t be positive.

Did you write this right after watching Star Wars? ;-)

[PositronicRay]

toon10 said:

REALIST123 said:

It’s far more than an ‘administrative arrangement’. If only what you say were true.

We’ve seen clearly over recent years that the EU is moving towards its stated aim of being a federation of states that will be governed from Brussels with few directly elected decision makers.

As for the earlier comments about slaves, I think many Greeks would have a view on that, and it wouldn’t be positive.

Did you write this right after watching Star Wars? ;-) [/quote

I woke up this morning humming a few bars from Lynyid Skynyrd's Freebird. Ohhh, I can already feel the evil tendrils of an enslavening superpower losing it's tenacious grip, slipping away one by one, now brexit's almost done.

I AM SPARTICUS.

[MC Bodge]

REALIST123 said:

It’s far more than an ‘administrative arrangement’. If only what you say were true.

We’ve seen clearly over recent years that the EU is moving towards its stated aim of being a federation of states that will be governed from Brussels with few directly elected decision makers.

As for the earlier comments about slaves, I think many Greeks would have a view on that, and it wouldn’t be positive.

Get a grip, man

[AW111]

I've learned that brexiteers just love hyperbole.

[Down and out]

AW111 said:

I've learned that brexiteers just love hyperbole.

Well, I've heard the words "crashing out" from remainers so many times I'm wondering what it is we're crashing into? Will there be broken glass? Will we bump into Ireland? Should I buy some sort of harness?

[simoid]

I’ve learnt that sometimes the UK public vote for the impossible.

[williamp]

1) That we have too many MP's- roughly the same number as India with its much bigger population, and almost twice the size of Canada
2) that we have forgotten about/ not been smart about the possible trade deals with the Commonwealth
3) that the speaker has way more power then one person should, is uncontrollable and above all questions of judgement. That he can decide what the agenda will be is a shocking afront to democracy. Its no good saying they all get to vote when what they are voting on is set beforehand by one person.

[MC Bodge]

williamp said:

1) That we have too many MP's- roughly the same number as India with its much bigger population, and almost twice the size of Canada
2) that we have forgotten about/ not been smart about the possible trade deals with the Commonwealth
3) that the speaker has way more power then one person should, is uncontrollable and above all questions of judgement. That he can decide what the agenda will be is a shocking afront to democracy. Its no good saying they all get to vote when what they are voting on is set beforehand by one person.

1. Agreed.

2. Er, right.

3. The speaker has been a much needed referee in the proceedings.

[amusingduck]

simoid said:

I’ve learnt that sometimes the UK public vote for the impossible.

With whose consent were we signed up to an EU that's impossible to leave?

[A Winner Is You]

Down and out said:

AW111 said:

I've learned that brexiteers just love hyperbole.

Well, I've heard the words "crashing out" from remainers so many times I'm wondering what it is we're crashing into? Will there be broken glass? Will we bump into Ireland? Should I buy some sort of harness?

Don't forget how everyone who wanted to leave is a far right xenophobic fascist, and how shutting parliament for a few days was a coup.

[jonnyb]

A Winner Is You said:

Down and out said:

AW111 said:

I've learned that brexiteers just love hyperbole.

Well, I've heard the words "crashing out" from remainers so many times I'm wondering what it is we're crashing into? Will there be broken glass? Will we bump into Ireland? Should I buy some sort of harness?

Don't forget how everyone who wanted to leave is a far right xenophobic fascist, and how shutting parliament for a few days was a coup.

If it was a few days it wouldn’t have been a coup, but it was 5 weeks. And it was deemed illegal.

[Troubleatmill]

jonnyb said:

A Winner Is You said:

Down and out said:

AW111 said:

I've learned that brexiteers just love hyperbole.

Well, I've heard the words "crashing out" from remainers so many times I'm wondering what it is we're crashing into? Will there be broken glass? Will we bump into Ireland? Should I buy some sort of harness?

Don't forget how everyone who wanted to leave is a far right xenophobic fascist, and how shutting parliament for a few days was a coup.

If it was a few days it wouldn’t have been a coup, but it was 5 weeks. And it was deemed illegal.

Not exactly true. Four of those weeks was already established - as it was party conference season. It is the expected norm. Everyone knew that. Boris wanted to add three or four days on top of that. 3-4 days is not unusual for prorogation. But everyone got into a hissy fit about it.