Brexit, what have you learnt
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
ChevyChase77 said:
EmilA said:
People who I thought were friends turned out to be quite racist and used Brexit to really reveal their true view on a few topics
Perhaps some context would help here.I've seen people call others racist purely and simply because they want immigration controlled/better managed.
If you want to control and limit immigration of mainly black people from Africa, you're a faithful supporter of the EU.
Well if the above none sense is anything to go by, absolutely nothing.
Murph7355 said:
BOR said:
...
2.Very surprised how many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back.
Evidence of this?2.Very surprised how many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back.
Or are you one of those who cannot understand the difference between controlled immigration (something the rest of the world does, and even the EU where it suits) and racism?
BOR said:
.Very surprised how many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back.
Well certainly the ones that are criminals, and there are plenty of them. A better idea would been to have checks in place thatdidn't allow them entry in the first place. Non criminals coming here to work and adding to the economy...no issues at all.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
V10leptoquark said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
... there's a range of opinions on how we should leave.
...
This is a narrative that came about shortly after the referendum result, to further divide and frustrate the issue....
The referendum was a binary choice - the people voted to either leave or stay. They were not asked "how do you wish to stay" or "how do you wish to leave". They simply voted to leave.
But each individual's opinion was not asked for in the referendum vote as a condition on to government after the result.
The mission, once they [MPs] chose to enact Article 50 was to act in the national interest in extracting the UK out of the EU. And not in producing a narrative on how the public then were to voice "how we should leave" which would further influence how government and the public were to treat the result of the referendum in one persuasion or another.
The whole intention of the "how we leave" narrative was/is to create further division on how to proceed and give additional excuse as to how not to proceed and to even limit or prevent proceeding with brexit altogether.
The narrative has acted as a 'vehicle' for the losing side (the 48% and the establishment) to formulate a reason as to how they would create an argument to go back to the people with another referendum.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
And again, you say "the people voted leave". 16.1 million voted stay, and millions didn't vote at all.
If 100 people going on a group holiday voted 52/48 to go abroad as opposed to holiday in the UK, then the group should go abroad. France maybe, or Holland. Maybe Spain. 52/48 is a pretty soft abroad vote. a 52/48 vote would not be a mandate for going on a holiday trekking thru the jungles of Borneo for 6 months, living off berries. Which in Brexit terms, exactly what this useless PM seems to be leading us towards.
??? Well that reply went off on its own tangent If 100 people going on a group holiday voted 52/48 to go abroad as opposed to holiday in the UK, then the group should go abroad. France maybe, or Holland. Maybe Spain. 52/48 is a pretty soft abroad vote. a 52/48 vote would not be a mandate for going on a holiday trekking thru the jungles of Borneo for 6 months, living off berries. Which in Brexit terms, exactly what this useless PM seems to be leading us towards.
Just to answer the first line of that, its either a case of accept the system of democracy or reject it at one's peril.
The reason the developed world has tended towards systems of democracy (whether it be argued as genuine or not) is because otherwise it results in dictatorships, tribal wars or sheer anarchy with constant bloody conflict. Democracy tends to lead to stable society with stable economies with least bloodshed.
17% of people who voted Leave thought it meant leave things as they are, and stay in the EU.
25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
toon10 said:
I'm not so sure the EU is worried or thinks that the UK will "successfully" leave or prosper to be honest.
Well one thing you can be sure of is that that the EU would hate it if we did prosper, along with many others.Sturgeon for example, her dream would be for brexit to fail monstrously, her nightmare would be for our
economy to flourish and prosper after leaving the EU. She would undoubtedly deny it if asked but there is
not an ounce of doubt she would revel in it being a disaster, simply because it would be beneficial to her
agenda.
A nasty way of thinking, but another thing we have learned in the last 3 or so years from politicians, Its all
about what they want not what the public votes.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
17% of people who voted Leave thought it meant leave things as they are, and stay in the EU.
25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
I think you're right. But the clever clogs we divvies elect to make the tough decisions for us disagreed with you.25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
The clever clogs who make the good decisions made the bad decision to give the Brexit decision to we divvies, who are only to be trusted to make bad decisions, except when required to be clever enough to elect clever clogs to make good decisions for us, like the decision to give the decision on brexit to us divvies.
(my MP is certainly NOT very clever. I make no representation as to myself)
TwigtheWonderkid said:
17% of people who voted Leave thought it meant leave things as they are, and stay in the EU.
25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
I am in full agreement with you on most points on this.25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
But at the same time with MPs like Dianna Abbot are left to make decisions on our behalf, it leaves me wondering how the UK is still operating as a country at all.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
17% of people who voted Leave thought it meant leave things as they are, and stay in the EU.
25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
There is an old saying along the lines of "if its really important, don't let the public decide"25% of people think No Deal means we stay in the EU, because we can't get a deal.
What I have learnt., well no learnt because I always knew it, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the general public. They are lucky they are allowed to have a say every 4 years on who should make the big decisions that they are too thick to understand. But ffs, don't actually let the general public make the big decisions.
When politicians come on tv and say we should trust the people, I think to myself "we really shouldn't".
TTwiggy said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So, strip emerging economies of their brightest and best while simultaneously causing a dire shortage of vital workers in lower-paid service industry work over here. Sounds like a great plan.That "dire shortage" will cause wages to rise and employers to invest in machinery and automation. I.E. the process on which we have relied to produce most of our economic growth since the start of the industrial revolution.
Pastor Of Muppets said:
Well one thing you can be sure of is that that the EU would hate it if we did prosper, along with many others.
Sturgeon for example, her dream would be for brexit to fail monstrously, her nightmare would be for our
economy to flourish and prosper after leaving the EU. She would undoubtedly deny it if asked but there is
not an ounce of doubt she would revel in it being a disaster, simply because it would be beneficial to her
agenda.
A nasty way of thinking, but another thing we have learned in the last 3 or so years from politicians, Its all
about what they want not what the public votes.
I suppose it's valid to claim that it's not in the EU interest for us to flourish post-Brexit, although even a 5% hike in GDP would probably be seen as 'not worth the arseache' given the cost so far, not to mention most other members are in the Euro as well which makes it much harder, but the EU works because of it's members, if it becomes smaller it gets eaten by bigger economies. Sturgeon for example, her dream would be for brexit to fail monstrously, her nightmare would be for our
economy to flourish and prosper after leaving the EU. She would undoubtedly deny it if asked but there is
not an ounce of doubt she would revel in it being a disaster, simply because it would be beneficial to her
agenda.
A nasty way of thinking, but another thing we have learned in the last 3 or so years from politicians, Its all
about what they want not what the public votes.
I think more fundamentally though you don't need a Masters in Economics to know that it's not possible for everyone to flourish, as you can't be wealthy in isolation, only in comparison with other economies. Either the EU and the UK are wealthy compared to the rest of the world together or one is wealthy compared to the other, and in competition, size matters.
Brooking10 said:
digimeistter said:
The EU are terrified of the prospect of us leaving.
That Dig is one of the funniest blokes on PH.
It's pretty obvious to me, you clearly disagree.
https://www.politico.eu/article/commission-gets-gl...
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 14th October 16:15
Pastor Of Muppets said:
but another thing we have learned in the last 3 or so years from politicians, Its all
about what they want not what the public votes.
Many leading Brexiteers, include Rees Mogg and the now PM, voted against May's deal, hence blocking Brexit, a fact that now seems to have been conveniently overlooked. Boris and his "let's get Brexit done" mantra, well it could have been done in March if you hadn't blocked it. Blocked because it wasn't the Brexit they wanted.about what they want not what the public votes.
As for self serving politicians, well 20+ of them recently threw their entire political careers under the bus to vote against the government because they thought it was the right thing to do, even though it was bad for them personally. How many on here who moan about politicians have sacrificed a job they loved on a point of principle?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff