How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)
Discussion
Brooking10 said:
We won’t get it done in 12 months and an extension is highly likely if not as good as inevitable, unless of course Boris is convinced to sacrifice pragmatism at the political altar.
It will be optic'd to the max.I don't see us getting to a final position in 12mths...but I can see key facets being done and a framework for the rest well under way.
What the "done" bits are I don't know. Low hanging fruit likely.
Deadlines are needed though. Neither side can allow this to drift. The EU are prone to that. Prior UK administrations too. Let's see what this one does
I ha e a feeling our "deal" with the EU may end up being multiple phases over an extended period. I'm cool with that personally, as long as the approach is sensible and not all one sided (both ways).
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Earthdweller said:
Hmmm.It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
We understand that perfectly, which is why we are not extending the period.
Murph7355 said:
Brooking10 said:
We won’t get it done in 12 months and an extension is highly likely if not as good as inevitable, unless of course Boris is convinced to sacrifice pragmatism at the political altar.
It will be optic'd to the max.I don't see us getting to a final position in 12mths...but I can see key facets being done and a framework for the rest well under way.
What the "done" bits are I don't know. Low hanging fruit likely.
Deadlines are needed though. Neither side can allow this to drift. The EU are prone to that. Prior UK administrations too. Let's see what this one does
I ha e a feeling our "deal" with the EU may end up being multiple phases over an extended period. I'm cool with that personally, as long as the approach is sensible and not all one sided (both ways).
One suspects they may be forced to blink in that regard. There is also the argument that the Treaty of Rome was agreed in similar timescale and that since we are not wildly divergent in overall standards - we being on exactly the same page at least - there should not be any reason why it is theoretically impossible.
jamoor said:
Murph7355 said:
Alternative view - we've decided that our path doesn't align with a political construct that is no longer primarily about trade, and would like to revert to a trading arrangement only.
No hate. No invective. Choice. As provisioned for, albeit very poorly, within the political construct's own rules.
Why does everything have to be extreme?
That's fine if that's what we want but we can't force our views on others, it's ridiculous.No hate. No invective. Choice. As provisioned for, albeit very poorly, within the political construct's own rules.
Why does everything have to be extreme?
We are free to tell them what we want and they are just as free to stick their fingers in their ears and not listen. As they wish.
If it's because they think they have leverage as a result of our prior membership then they are continuing to fail to understand the UK. We now have a govt that can and will walk if the terms aren't sensible. And political strings are not sensible. That ship sailed. As Trev and Stongle note, they now need to be talking business. Not ruing what once was.
Personally I think they'll get this in time...
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Hmmm.
It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
The EU themselves agreed they could... Indeed, the driver for the end of the transition deadline were the EU. It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
Earthdweller said:
As was pointed out in the speech last night, the Treaty of Rome was all done and dusted in 9 months !
If they can form the European Economic Community in 9 months then I’m sure they can sort out one member leaving the club in 12
That included the Common Agricultural Policy and loads more.
It now known as the foundation of the European Union ... all in 9 months
Might not be the best example - they should arguably have taken longer If they can form the European Economic Community in 9 months then I’m sure they can sort out one member leaving the club in 12
That included the Common Agricultural Policy and loads more.
It now known as the foundation of the European Union ... all in 9 months
Digga said:
xcept the EU, thus far, has been reticent to agree piecemeal deals, instead insisting on a "one out all out" approach, where no deal's done until every part is ratified.
One suspects they may be forced to blink in that regard. There is also the argument that the Treaty of Rome was agreed in similar timescale and that since we are not wildly divergent in overall standards - we being on exactly the same page at least - there should not be any reason why it is theoretically impossible.
Didn't I hear they wanted some things (fish?) dealt with first?One suspects they may be forced to blink in that regard. There is also the argument that the Treaty of Rome was agreed in similar timescale and that since we are not wildly divergent in overall standards - we being on exactly the same page at least - there should not be any reason why it is theoretically impossible.
Either way, we'll see.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Hmmm.
It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
Nor has the EU demanded a £39 billion fee to potential trade partners. I presume that if no deal is the outcome on 31st Dec 20, then no huge cheque will be sent to Brussels and they'll have to compete for our business on WTO rules, just like many other non EU countries - I can't imagine this would look like a victory to the EU.It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
Borghetto said:
Nor has the EU demanded a £39 billion fee to potential trade partners. I presume that if no deal is the outcome on 31st Dec 20, then no huge cheque will be sent to Brussels and they'll have to compete for our business on WTO rules, just like many other non EU countries - I can't imagine this would look like a victory to the EU.
Gees, people still rolling out this crap. 
They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Borghetto said:
Nor has the EU demanded a £39 billion fee to potential trade partners. I presume that if no deal is the outcome on 31st Dec 20, then no huge cheque will be sent to Brussels and they'll have to compete for our business on WTO rules, just like many other non EU countries - I can't imagine this would look like a victory to the EU.
Gees, people still rolling out this crap. They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Gees, people still rolling out this crap.
They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Haven’t they been saying all along “ no deal no money” ? They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Or maybe I’ve been hearing things for the last three years
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Earthdweller said:
Hmmm.It's all well and good him claiming that the EU doesn't understand where we are comming from, when there appears little understanding on his part where the EU is comming from. He demands that the trade agreement be sorted within 9 months so we can have our full independence, but the EU have never concluded a trade agreement in that time before.
The EU are saying you can leave, but you’re not really leaving
You think you have taken back control, but actually we are still in control
You think you can make your own rules, but actually you must adhere to ours and our court had Primacy over yours
Etc etc
Last night Frost told them to f
k right off that ain’t happening Earthdweller said:
I think he understands exactly where the EU are coming from as do most rational people
The EU are saying you can leave, but you’re not really leaving
You think you have taken back control, but actually we are still in control
You think you can make your own rules, but actually you must adhere to ours and our court had Primacy over yours
Etc etc
Last night Frost told them to fk right off that ain’t happening
It's playground politics.The EU are saying you can leave, but you’re not really leaving
You think you have taken back control, but actually we are still in control
You think you can make your own rules, but actually you must adhere to ours and our court had Primacy over yours
Etc etc
Last night Frost told them to f
k right off that ain’t happening You're part of a club, you tell them you can do better without the club and you will leave and do a better job of it.
The club won't be your best mates after that, especially after the distruption you've caused the club on the world stage and the financial etc problems.
jamoor said:
It's playground politics.
You're part of a club, you tell them you can do better without the club and you will leave and do a better job of it.
The club won't be your best mates after that, especially after the distruption you've caused the club on the world stage and the financial etc problems.
Once again, we're not asking to be best mates. You're part of a club, you tell them you can do better without the club and you will leave and do a better job of it.
The club won't be your best mates after that, especially after the distruption you've caused the club on the world stage and the financial etc problems.
We're asking for things they've agreed with far less supportive friends, and they've not placed the same demands on those nations...
Earthdweller said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Gees, people still rolling out this crap.
They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Haven’t they been saying all along “ no deal no money” ? They haven't demanded that from us either.
That is part of the leaving terms and conditions, now law, and which will have to be paid regardless of any trade agreement. Much in fact has already been paid.
Or maybe I’ve been hearing things for the last three years
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