How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)
Discussion
The last hope for a 2nd referendum appears to have gone along with the potential for a hung parliament.
That despite 51-52% - the will of the people lol - being for either 2nd ref or revoke parties. Ironic that such numbers will be roundly ignored and much made of the clear mandate his 80 seat majority gives him to do what he likes now on brexit. Which he will of course, and whilst it is a real tragedy the chance to avert brexit has it seems gone his new party position will at least let him ignore some of the wilder ERG ideas that dogged the last government. It will potentially be a BRINO fudge but worry not, Johnson will reassure you it is not BRINO. Some will lap up his lies as usual and life will go on.
The election was a trap for the people's vote and Johnson & Cummings knew it - sadly the opposition in Corbyn, Swinson et al was too dim to see it and others like the SNP just saw their chance to get what they wanted, perhaps hoping for a hung parliament. A stupid gamble with someone as patently unpopular as Corbyn leading the opposition.
What will Johnson do now? Secure his deal and fudge the detail? Probably, there will be little interest or ability to review the detail now by many, or indeed parliament.
Sad times but now looks like the greatest UK foreign policy failure in my lifetime will now be unstoppable.
That despite 51-52% - the will of the people lol - being for either 2nd ref or revoke parties. Ironic that such numbers will be roundly ignored and much made of the clear mandate his 80 seat majority gives him to do what he likes now on brexit. Which he will of course, and whilst it is a real tragedy the chance to avert brexit has it seems gone his new party position will at least let him ignore some of the wilder ERG ideas that dogged the last government. It will potentially be a BRINO fudge but worry not, Johnson will reassure you it is not BRINO. Some will lap up his lies as usual and life will go on.
The election was a trap for the people's vote and Johnson & Cummings knew it - sadly the opposition in Corbyn, Swinson et al was too dim to see it and others like the SNP just saw their chance to get what they wanted, perhaps hoping for a hung parliament. A stupid gamble with someone as patently unpopular as Corbyn leading the opposition.
What will Johnson do now? Secure his deal and fudge the detail? Probably, there will be little interest or ability to review the detail now by many, or indeed parliament.
Sad times but now looks like the greatest UK foreign policy failure in my lifetime will now be unstoppable.
catweasle said:
DeepEnd said:
Sad times but now looks like the greatest UK foreign policy failure in my lifetime will now be unstoppable.
perhaps we need a new party with a manifesto to reform the way UK politics is done?Some may feel their hero needs another £25, and that may determine their gullibility and ability to learn.
DeepEnd said:
The eventual failure of brexit and it's ramifications are going to be the most likely catalyst for change. There will be a gradual dawning that things are worse not better and many will see life was better under more moderate centrist governments. Some may even learn that blaming foreigners generally for your ills is just a fools game. Some won't of course.
Some may feel their hero needs another £25, and that may determine their gullibility and ability to learn.
You sooo sad Some may feel their hero needs another £25, and that may determine their gullibility and ability to learn.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Saturday 14th December 12:56
The Brexit or Remain argument is done and dusted thank god. Boris has a thumping great leave mandate and any fantasy of reversing the referendum is firmly gone. This will focus minds on both UK and EU sides to now deliver the WA and FTA.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
I think Trump's message leaves us in a much stronger negotiating position with the EU.
"Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U."
We now have the option to form closer ties with the US if we're not happy with how the EU negotiations are going. It makes it much easier to decline their terms so they know we're in a strong negotiating position.
I'm very pleased with the recent events that have unfolded
For our country as a whole.
"Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U."
We now have the option to form closer ties with the US if we're not happy with how the EU negotiations are going. It makes it much easier to decline their terms so they know we're in a strong negotiating position.
I'm very pleased with the recent events that have unfolded
For our country as a whole. As an ardent remainer I can now concede the matters finished and in many ways I’m glad. I think Brexit is a stupid idea but it’s happening and we need to get on with it, as it happens I don’t think Boris is a hard brexiteer, infact I don’t think he cares either way he just saw it as an opportunity to get into number 10 and I think many Brexiteers will actually not be best pleased with him in the end
C4ME said:
The Brexit or Remain argument is done and dusted thank god. Boris has a thumping great leave mandate and any fantasy of reversing the referendum is firmly gone. This will focus minds on both UK and EU sides to now deliver the WA and FTA.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Ha ha - done and dusted?It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Leavers will be reminded what they’ve done until they die.
StottyGTR said:
I think Trump's message leaves us in a much stronger negotiating position with the EU.
"Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U."
We now have the option to form closer ties with the US if we're not happy with how the EU negotiations are going. It makes it much easier to decline their terms so they know we're in a strong negotiating position.
I'm very pleased with the recent events that have unfolded For our country as a whole.
Plus of course with an independent trade policy, there's nothing stopping us having free trade with both... "Britain and the United States will now be free to strike a massive new Trade Deal after BREXIT. This deal has the potential to be far bigger and more lucrative than any deal that could be made with the E.U."
We now have the option to form closer ties with the US if we're not happy with how the EU negotiations are going. It makes it much easier to decline their terms so they know we're in a strong negotiating position.
I'm very pleased with the recent events that have unfolded
For our country as a whole. DeepEnd said:
C4ME said:
The Brexit or Remain argument is done and dusted thank god. Boris has a thumping great leave mandate and any fantasy of reversing the referendum is firmly gone. This will focus minds on both UK and EU sides to now deliver the WA and FTA.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Ha ha - done and dusted?It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Leavers will be reminded what they’ve done until they die.
chrispmartha said:
As an ardent remainer I can now concede the matters finished and in many ways I’m glad. I think Brexit is a stupid idea but it’s happening and we need to get on with it, as it happens I don’t think Boris is a hard brexiteer, infact I don’t think he cares either way he just saw it as an opportunity to get into number 10 and I think many Brexiteers will actually not be best pleased with him in the end
My position has always been that - given the path that was chosen - we had to negotiate the best possible arrangement for the country. A more personal point of view is that a 'best possible arrangement' outside of membership of the EU would by necessity involve ensuring our economy and trade was independent of the EU's control.As such, I couldn't give a monkeys if the PM is a staunch Remainer, or a hard as rocks Brexiteer - their job has always been to negotiate in good faith and to the best of their abilities. May failed that test (disastrously), and those calling for a 'pretend Brexit' (or wishing for BRINO as some sort of vindication) have completely failed to make a case for their stance. In fact they've looked increasingly out of touch with every day that passes. In the circumstances, I don't think we'll see a BRINO, but nor do I expect a 'hard' (moronic phrase) Brexit. From day one I said I expected the final arrangement to be pretty boring - this is a trade deal, not a coup by a fascist dictatorship.
So far I'm satisfied that Boris has shown himself to be a better strategist than every opposing leader or group in the country. Isn't that what we need at this stage? Doesn't matter if you love him or loathe him - every single other alternative is worse. Personally, I'd rather someone went into the negotiations with the intention of 'winning', than went in there with some ideological outcome pre-decided. That was May's approach and we all saw where it led.
We'll see how Boris negotiates the same challenge - I doubt he'll deliver something that will please everybody (or even everybody on the Leave side), and there could be some interesting concessions to 'get the job done' - but I'm a pragmatist, not an ideologue, so (no doubt to DeepEnd's dissatisfaction) I'm not going to be hurt if we end up with something that doesn't exactly fit my personal criteria.
That has always been the failure of the die-hard Remain groups - they've been unwilling to budge an inch from an ideological stance, and have treated the benefits as 'self evident' rather than painting a picture of how their vision could lead to a 'better Britain' as part of the EU. Even now, all of the rhetoric is about how much doom and gloom will be called down on the country as punishment for not being true believers.
DeepEnd said:
catweasle said:
DeepEnd said:
Sad times but now looks like the greatest UK foreign policy failure in my lifetime will now be unstoppable.
perhaps we need a new party with a manifesto to reform the way UK politics is done?Some may feel their hero needs another £25, and that may determine their gullibility and ability to learn.
DeepEnd said:
C4ME said:
The Brexit or Remain argument is done and dusted thank god. Boris has a thumping great leave mandate and any fantasy of reversing the referendum is firmly gone. This will focus minds on both UK and EU sides to now deliver the WA and FTA.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Ha ha - done and dusted?It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Leavers will be reminded what they’ve done until they die.
Let's be honest, nobody cares what sad view of life you now have - but it won't do your health any good if you fail to accept reality.
I've already admitted there seems no hope of going back now.
I have to accept it's going to happen, and I do.
I was just correcting any impression that this means its the end of pointing out it's a stupid idea promoted by liars and promoted by the gullible.
This will never end.
Leavers that don't like being associated with the stupidity of the vote are best off not mentioning it - bring it up and you're more likely than ever to get told you were duped. Because you were.
No one "won" this week, least of all the £25er extreme idealists who think they aren't what they clearly are.
Merry Christmas!
I have to accept it's going to happen, and I do.
I was just correcting any impression that this means its the end of pointing out it's a stupid idea promoted by liars and promoted by the gullible.
This will never end.
Leavers that don't like being associated with the stupidity of the vote are best off not mentioning it - bring it up and you're more likely than ever to get told you were duped. Because you were.
No one "won" this week, least of all the £25er extreme idealists who think they aren't what they clearly are.
Merry Christmas!
Robertj21a said:
DeepEnd said:
C4ME said:
The Brexit or Remain argument is done and dusted thank god. Boris has a thumping great leave mandate and any fantasy of reversing the referendum is firmly gone. This will focus minds on both UK and EU sides to now deliver the WA and FTA.
It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Ha ha - done and dusted?It is not going to be a smooth road but at least all the Remain distractions and game playing in the HoC will cease. Some of high profile people involved in those games who got voted out on Thursday showed a pretty brutal verdict from the electorate.
Leavers will be reminded what they’ve done until they die.
Let's be honest, nobody cares what sad view of life you now have - but it won't do your health any good if you fail to accept reality.
As it is, I don't think he even lives in the country, so what happens here won't affect him as much as his posts suggest. Which is probably a good thing all round.
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