How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)
Discussion
As for "clear economic links" - today, the rules mean that merely registering the boat in the UK is sufficient, even if the boat never lands a single fish into a UK port.
That's not the norm, anywhere else outside the EU. See Norway,or indeed anywhere else...
Who exactly, do you think has a greater interest in preserving stocks, and supporting the indigenous fishing industry?
The nation whose waters and businesses the fish and activity resides in - or those who may not even have a coastline, or are travelling hundreds of miles to fish other nation's waters instead of their own?
Still, made me laugh.
Lastly, cause I really can't be arsed debating with surface skimming of Google - there is a massive difference in the end result (the permissible quota of a given stock) and the mechanism of meeting it (the methods, tackle, seasonality, ranges, etc.)
That's not the norm, anywhere else outside the EU. See Norway,or indeed anywhere else...
Who exactly, do you think has a greater interest in preserving stocks, and supporting the indigenous fishing industry?
The nation whose waters and businesses the fish and activity resides in - or those who may not even have a coastline, or are travelling hundreds of miles to fish other nation's waters instead of their own?
Still, made me laugh.
Lastly, cause I really can't be arsed debating with surface skimming of Google - there is a massive difference in the end result (the permissible quota of a given stock) and the mechanism of meeting it (the methods, tackle, seasonality, ranges, etc.)
Sway said:
Lots and lots.
As an expert on border control, international treaty negotiations, exchange of security information, financial services and now fishing. I am surprised that you not in great demand by every employers. That's right you say you are but turn down the opportunities.I also note as an expert on everything you never post links to back up your claims.
Mrr T said:
Sway said:
Lots and lots.
As an expert on border control, international treaty negotiations, exchange of security information, financial services and now fishing. I am surprised that you not in great demand by every employers. That's right you say you are but turn down the opportunities.I also note as an expert on everything you never post links to back up your claims.
Did you copy and fish paste that link Mr T?
Level 2... I'm shocked.
Amazingly, someone can be in the middle of the Dunning-Kruger curve on many subjects as a result of their experiences in multiple industries and their personal interests or knowledge gained by interacting with others.
That someone could give plenty of rationale for their opinion - without relying on the thoughts of others or Google to back them up. The sort of rational explanation that could be rebutted, or questioned, or refuted - if a debater who held a different opinion wished to.
Isn't it amazing, how others don't wish to, and instead get personal. Like bringing people's kids into the debate...
Mrr T said:
As an expert on border control, international treaty negotiations, exchange of security information, financial services and now fishing. I am surprised that you not in great demand by every employers. That's right you say you are but turn down the opportunities.
I also note as an expert on everything you never post links to back up your claims.
I think your irony filter is broken.I also note as an expert on everything you never post links to back up your claims.
Mrr T said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Because they do now, and in many cases they will have paid the UK fisherman for the quota to do so.
But at the end of the day it's all part of the negotiation, the UK does not have to agree to it. But then of course the French/Spanish/whoever don't have to buy the fish that we will catch.
The question is does the UK have to pay compensation if it takes back the rights. Its not clear legally but effectively taking away a right which has been paid for with out compensation set a very bad precedent. But at the end of the day it's all part of the negotiation, the UK does not have to agree to it. But then of course the French/Spanish/whoever don't have to buy the fish that we will catch.
So the fishermans plan for brexit is the UK takes back the fishing quota UK fishermen have sold to EU fishermen, pays compensation to the EU fishermen and then gives the quota back to the UK fishermen. No wonder UK fishermen voted for brexit.
The answer would be no, because the UK has not received a single net positive penny of funding from the EU for all the time it has been a member.
To receive real, and actual funding funding from the EU, the UK needed to receive more from the EU`s coffers, that it pays in each year, and that has never happened.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Did the EU pay compensation for the decimation of many of the UK`s fishing, and coastal communities, once commercial fishing virtually ceased at so many of them?
The answer would be no, because the UK has not received a single net positive penny of funding from the EU for all the time it has been a member.
To receive real, and actual funding funding from the EU, the UK needed to receive more from the EU`s coffers, that it pays in each year, and that has never happened.
Similar to my second marriage, all cost and little reward.The answer would be no, because the UK has not received a single net positive penny of funding from the EU for all the time it has been a member.
To receive real, and actual funding funding from the EU, the UK needed to receive more from the EU`s coffers, that it pays in each year, and that has never happened.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Did the EU pay compensation for the decimation of many of the UK`s fishing, and coastal communities, once commercial fishing virtually ceased at so many of them?
Another urban myth. Check the link I provided above. The majority of the damage to the small scale fisherman and their community was a result of the way the UK decided to allocate quota. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
That's what I call joined up government. Maybe it's a cunning plan to fool the EU into thinking the BJ government has no plan.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
That's what I call joined up government. Maybe it's a cunning plan to fool the EU into thinking the BJ government has no plan.
Mrr T said:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
That's what I call joined up government. Maybe it's a cunning plan to fool the EU into thinking the BJ government has no plan.
Seems perfectly normal opening salvo’s from Ministers, doors being left open but some ‘divergence’https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1233598/Priti-Pa...
That's what I call joined up government. Maybe it's a cunning plan to fool the EU into thinking the BJ government has no plan.
from a hard line can be deployed. Standard negotiations tactics.
Mrr T said:
That's what I call joined up government. Maybe it's a cunning plan to fool the EU into thinking the BJ government has no plan.
Is this the bit where Remainers cite every last government soundbite and interview throughout the negotiation period as though there is some magic requirement for those people to be consistent and accurate?By now, you should actually know what a negotiation looks like, enough to understand that what one minister says at any one time does not represent some set in stone government policy that cannot be altered.
Pointing out that different minsters say different things to different audiences at different times is like pointing out water is wet.
It's going to be a long year.
hutchst said:
Mrr T said:
Another urban myth. Check the link I provided above. The majority of the damage to the small scale fisherman and their community was a result of the way the UK decided to allocate quota.
FactortameThe link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
A quote.
" Right now, under 10 metre boats represent 77 per cent of the UK fleet but have access to less than 2 per cent of the overall quota allocation."
Quota allocation has always been the responsibility of the UK not the EU.
hutchst said:
Mrr T said:
Another urban myth. Check the link I provided above. The majority of the damage to the small scale fisherman and their community was a result of the way the UK decided to allocate quota.
FactortameFishing communities have only a small number of their workers/business being the catching.
Mrr T said:
Nothing to do with the allocation of quota by the UK government.
The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
Summary (cake and eat it version) "The problems with fishing are nothing at all to do with EU membership, but not being members of the EU could cause problems with fishing".The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
No contradiction there, oh no.
This seems like a good opportunity for all those new found passionate advocates for UK fishermen's rights to campaign for better quota allocation. Of course, most of them won't bother because they're too busy fighting Brexit.
Mrr T said:
Nothing to do with the allocation of quota by the UK government.
The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
A quote.
" Right now, under 10 metre boats represent 77 per cent of the UK fleet but have access to less than 2 per cent of the overall quota allocation."
Quota allocation has always been the responsibility of the UK not the EU.
Try reading the source material, rather than website articles containing agenda-driven opinions.The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
A quote.
" Right now, under 10 metre boats represent 77 per cent of the UK fleet but have access to less than 2 per cent of the overall quota allocation."
Quota allocation has always been the responsibility of the UK not the EU.
The Factortame judgements (there are a number of linked decisions in the UK and Eurooean courts) resulted in Spanish-owned fishing boats with Spanish crews operating from Spanish ports coming to UK waters, catching UK-quota fish and taking them straight back to Spanish ports. Without ever being near a British port.
Because the Spanish boats were registered in the UK under the freedom of movement regulations, even 'though they had never been to the UK.
Yes the UK does allocate UK quota, but in future it will only have to allocate it to UK boats, and it will be up to us to dedide what is a UK boat and what isn't. French or Spanish boats will no ,longer be able to masquerade as British.
That's why the European fishing industries are getting very touchy about it, because they will lose their share of our quota.
I say again, go and read the judgements.
Tuna said:
Mrr T said:
Nothing to do with the allocation of quota by the UK government.
The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
Summary (cake and eat it version) "The problems with fishing are nothing at all to do with EU membership, but not being members of the EU could cause problems with fishing".The link I was referring to. Worth reading.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/h...
No contradiction there, oh no.
This seems like a good opportunity for all those new found passionate advocates for UK fishermen's rights to campaign for better quota allocation. Of course, most of them won't bother because they're too busy fighting Brexit.
Perhaps if brexiters took more time on research they could lobby the UK government they elected to come up with sensible solutions.
Bang on Hutch.
As for Patel - there'll eventually be understanding here, amongst the press, and the general public that the UK government choosing to adopt the same standards as elsewhere, but retaining full control and oversight of those regs can be a good thing, and is very different from being "rule takers" under the oversight and arbitration of another legislature.
As for Patel - there'll eventually be understanding here, amongst the press, and the general public that the UK government choosing to adopt the same standards as elsewhere, but retaining full control and oversight of those regs can be a good thing, and is very different from being "rule takers" under the oversight and arbitration of another legislature.
hutchst said:
Try reading the source material, rather than website articles containing agenda-driven opinions.
The Factortame judgements (there are a number of linked decisions in the UK and Eurooean courts) resulted in Spanish-owned fishing boats with Spanish crews operating from Spanish ports coming to UK waters, catching UK-quota fish and taking them straight back to Spanish ports. Without ever being near a British port.
Because the Spanish boats were registered in the UK under the freedom of movement regulations, even 'though they had never been to the UK.
Yes the UK does allocate UK quota, but in future it will only have to allocate it to UK boats, and it will be up to us to dedide what is a UK boat and what isn't. French or Spanish boats will no ,longer be able to masquerade as British.
That's why the European fishing industries are getting very touchy about it, because they will lose their share of our quota.
I say again, go and read the judgements.
I am aware of the judgement but the article was about the small boats, which are the majority of the UK fleet, which are nothing to do with the cases you refer to. The Factortame judgements (there are a number of linked decisions in the UK and Eurooean courts) resulted in Spanish-owned fishing boats with Spanish crews operating from Spanish ports coming to UK waters, catching UK-quota fish and taking them straight back to Spanish ports. Without ever being near a British port.
Because the Spanish boats were registered in the UK under the freedom of movement regulations, even 'though they had never been to the UK.
Yes the UK does allocate UK quota, but in future it will only have to allocate it to UK boats, and it will be up to us to dedide what is a UK boat and what isn't. French or Spanish boats will no ,longer be able to masquerade as British.
That's why the European fishing industries are getting very touchy about it, because they will lose their share of our quota.
I say again, go and read the judgements.
As for the position going forward did you ever consider what would happen if your suggestions for fishing where applied to other industries. Would you be upset if the EU said Vodafone could no longer operate in the EU because it a UK company and its board is in the UK?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff