How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)
Discussion
El stovey said:
powerstroke said:
The weather and getting a puncture will still be the Eu's fault .....FFS
Are remainers capable of freethinking and rational thought ??? answers on a post card please...
I don’t have a postcard but since they’ve managed to get the best paid jobs and higher levels of education and are in the higher socio economic groups and be the higher earners, you’d expect so.Are remainers capable of freethinking and rational thought ??? answers on a post card please...
Just look at the colours, which group do you think would be more capable of “free thinking and rational thought”?
You voted Leave, remember?
You're one of the blue brigade 
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Just a clever way of spending public funds to support Johnson's election campaign. El stovey said:
amusingduck said:
They?
You voted Leave, remember? You're one of the blue brigade
Yes that’s why I said they. You voted Leave, remember?
You're one of the blue brigade That other group the yellow (remainers) had the higher earners and higher socioeconomic members etc.
My group that voted leave (blue) had the lower earners and less well off.
El stovey said:
Just look at the colours, which group do you think would be more capable of “free thinking and rational thought”?
Please don't bring that old canard up again. Living in Cambridge, I can attest that high education and high incomes don't correlate very well with rational thought and social balance. 
As it is... people doing well are less likely to want to rock the boat/bite the hand that feeds them. It really is as simple as that. It does not imply some special insight, and should not be used to belittle the views of people 'beneath you'. Unpleasant at best. (note, the 'you' here is general, not an accusation of Stovey's behaviour).
With a lack of serious news, we're heading back into silly season here. You know Brexit is not generating any new information when the big news is an argument over a comma.
El stovey said:
Yes that’s why I said they.
That other group the yellow (remainers) had the higher earners and higher socioeconomic members etc.
My group that voted leave (blue) had the lower earners and less well off.
Not this sThat other group the yellow (remainers) had the higher earners and higher socioeconomic members etc.
My group that voted leave (blue) had the lower earners and less well off.
t again.Rant-on (not directed, observational)
Higher education does not equate to intelligence (Blairite policies). Even higher socio/economic status is a poor measure (wealth divide, availability or access to credit). This is all a bit antiquated.
A highly leveraged lifestyle and degree in media studies is the new Bourgeoisie?
I think we might be getting ahead of ourselves a little bit.
The fact people (or worse the media) believe all those groups are homogenous is f
king dangerous, is the route to idiocracy.How we have become so hung-up (on what is essentially a Mickey Mouse issue), and one when resolved (pragmatically) has almost zero influence to the lives of most people is insane. It’s a mask for wider issues. Germany today announced a loosening of its fiscal brake (which is a massive policy shift and shows a significant rethink)…
Anyhoo, there a number of ways the EU could blow up that won’t make our supposed Bourgeoisie elite look so smart (and FFS we are already in place with aligned regulations and target quota’s - divergence ONLY makes sense in extremis). And, vice versa there a number of ways our government could screw up exit for the BREXIT group. Nothing is done yet, but remain in particularly are losing their s
t.This was an economic risk exercise; that most of the electorate was NOT qualified to make a call on. If wealth distribution had really worked in the UK, 100% it would have been a remain vote returned as few will challenge the status quo. There will be very, very few voters left for whom governance from the EC would have been a problem (so Powerstroke is NOT representative of ALL Leave – or if he is then ALL western governments have been running a foreign policy fail for decades). The “perceived” (or actual for some) financial downside of imported cheap labour, was a consequence of other systematic failures that need to be addressed (wealth distribution / govt policy), ironically it’s a BIGGER issue for the EU (according to errr, the ECB). Freedom of movement is NOT an enlightened right-on policy; its economic (so “the right-on” have missed the point, ballpark or f
king planet). The fact vocal remainers cannot fathom that leavers have an entire spectrum of reasons to leave; kinda smashes the lie of educated / non educated groups.
“We” seemingly lean towards simplistic media or very, very basic analysis to confirm our bias. Unfortunately its nearly all bulls
t. Brooking called this too (in his Care Bear’ish fashion), but calling one group smarter (en-masse) is crap. What’s done is done, if you got the result you wanted – Happy Days. There are a lot of issues on the horizon OR ones we can screw up negotiating. Sitting their crying over spilt milk, is about the most tiring and defeatist attitude (even seizing on media remainer porn). If Remainers put even half the effort they spend crying / whinging; we might have an even bigger bounce.
Rant-off.
Edited by stongle on Wednesday 29th January 12:43
Tuna said:
El stovey said:
Just look at the colours, which group do you think would be more capable of “free thinking and rational thought”?
Please don't bring that old canard up again. Living in Cambridge, I can attest that high education and high incomes don't correlate very well with rational thought and social balance. As it is... people doing well are less likely to want to rock the boat/bite the hand that feeds them. It really is as simple as that. It does not imply some special insight, and should not be used to belittle the views of people 'beneath you'. Unpleasant at best. (note, the 'you' here is general, not an accusation of Stovey's behaviour).
With a lack of serious news, we're heading back into silly season here. You know Brexit is not generating any new information when the big news is an argument over a comma.
Tuna said:
El stovey said:
Just look at the colours, which group do you think would be more capable of “free thinking and rational thought”?
Please don't bring that old canard up again. Living in Cambridge, I can attest that high education and high incomes don't correlate very well with rational thought and social balance. As it is... people doing well are less likely to want to rock the boat/bite the hand that feeds them. It really is as simple as that. It does not imply some special insight, and should not be used to belittle the views of people 'beneath you'. Unpleasant at best. (note, the 'you' here is general, not an accusation of Stovey's behaviour).
With a lack of serious news, we're heading back into silly season here. You know Brexit is not generating any new information when the big news is an argument over a comma.
Any arguments that a particular group of society are less well equipped to make important decisions than others are irrelevant.
Some people might argue that majority rule leads to bad decisions. In some cases they are right, but it is better than a dictatorship.
stongle said:
Tuna said:
El stovey said:
Just look at the colours, which group do you think would be more capable of “free thinking and rational thought”?
Please don't bring that old canard up again. Living in Cambridge, I can attest that high education and high incomes don't correlate very well with rational thought and social balance. As it is... people doing well are less likely to want to rock the boat/bite the hand that feeds them. It really is as simple as that. It does not imply some special insight, and should not be used to belittle the views of people 'beneath you'. Unpleasant at best. (note, the 'you' here is general, not an accusation of Stovey's behaviour).
With a lack of serious news, we're heading back into silly season here. You know Brexit is not generating any new information when the big news is an argument over a comma.
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
Elysium said:
Our democracy stands on the principal of universal suffrage - one adult = one vote.
Any arguments that a particular group of society are less well equipped to make important decisions than others are irrelevant.
Some people might argue that majority rule leads to bad decisions. In some cases they are right, but it is better than a dictatorship.
Nice to see you back.Any arguments that a particular group of society are less well equipped to make important decisions than others are irrelevant.
Some people might argue that majority rule leads to bad decisions. In some cases they are right, but it is better than a dictatorship.
El stovey said:
Right but perhaps you missed that it’s a reply to someone saying remainers aren’t capable of “free thinking and rational thought.”
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
If by the data, you are pointing to degree-level education, might I point out that universities are the most notable bastions in the UK of no-platforming and stamping out heterodox thought? On that basis, I'd suggest leavers might be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought...The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
El stovey said:
Right but perhaps you missed that it’s a reply to someone saying remainers aren’t capable of “free thinking and rational thought.”
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I really don't want to perpetuate this conversation, but the portion of people who independently change their outlook (ie. move out of the social/employment bracket their family and peers are in) is relatively small. Rational thought and free thinking don't come into following your predicted route through education and into employment. My kids will probably go to university and get high paying jobs - not because they're special, but because that's what's expected of them. (Sigh.. any moment we're going to have parenting advice from our resident expert).The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
El stovey said:
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
Looking at those statistics as presented I'd say highly educated people are incapable of producing easily comprehensible infographics. I've thought about them until my head hurts and I still can't work out what the hell they are supposed to be showing us.which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
psi310398 said:
If by the data, you are pointing to degree-level education, might I point out that universities are the most notable bastions in the UK of no-platforming and stamping out heterodox thought? On that basis, I'd suggest leavers might be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought...
Right, but overall, if you were looking at all the charts and you had to say which colour you thought would be more likely to be “capable of free thinking and rational thought.”Which one would you say?
One group has more higher earners, more ABC1 and more formal qualifications and higher education levels.
Be honest, If you had both groups in front of you and you had to pick one to be responsible for making an important decision. You would go for yellow wouldn’t you?
Again I was posting in reply to someone critical of the “free thinking and rational thought.” of remainers. Not me being critical of any one group.
El stovey said:
Right, but overall, if you were looking at all the charts and you had to say which colour you thought would be more likely to be “capable of free thinking and rational thought.”
Which one would you say?
Shouldn't the question be, is powerstroke capable of free thinking and rational thought?Which one would you say?
All I have ever read is hatred for the EU and Labour Party.
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