How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)
Discussion
massively inappropriate example230TE said:
Looking at those statistics as presented I'd say highly educated people are incapable of producing easily comprehensible infographics. I've thought about them until my head hurts and I still can't work out what the hell they are supposed to be showing us.
You are not educated or free thinking enough to understand them, I am afraid we will need to remove your right to vote or express an opinion 
El stovey said:
Right but perhaps you missed that it’s a reply to someone saying remainers aren’t capable of “free thinking and rational thought.”
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
I know what you are saying, but as per my initial comments - you can buy a uni degree through leverage (either loans or parents re-mortgaging)...... I suspect we are amortising (down) the value. Your graph didn’t qualify the types of degrees (it's a wide range) either. And h123's claims of degree bought intelligence really haven’t panned out. Historically, I’d agree you would be correct – I’m not sure that will hold up for much longer though. But hey it’s an opinion.The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
Anecdotally, I work in an industry with probably the highest concentration of BOTH highly paid AND educated - and the Remain / BREXIT split is close to 50/50. If you read Financial press this is replicated (even Carney has flipped). Most of the reasons given for BREXIT are due to the fiscal / monetary imbalance (and the issues Brooking has also raised). BREXIT “should” make little difference to most; the peripheral policy responses are the biggest wins (Javid is replicating Germany relaxing the fiscal brake – MMT is all on). Neither of those featured in a mainstream BREXIT debate though did they……
Dont like rolls said:
deadslow said:
being filled with hate makes for poor judgement/blinkers
I can give you many examples of people that does not work with.Many hated Hitler for example..........
May be you fit into El Stovey’s tables at a place you would prefer not to be.
230TE said:
El stovey said:
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
Looking at those statistics as presented I'd say highly educated people are incapable of producing easily comprehensible infographics. I've thought about them until my head hurts and I still can't work out what the hell they are supposed to be showing us.which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
psi310398 said:
El stovey said:
Right but perhaps you missed that it’s a reply to someone saying remainers aren’t capable of “free thinking and rational thought.”
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
If by the data, you are pointing to degree-level education, might I point out that universities are the most notable bastions in the UK of no-platforming and stamping out heterodox thought? On that basis, I'd suggest leavers might be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought...The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
El stovey said:
psi310398 said:
If by the data, you are pointing to degree-level education, might I point out that universities are the most notable bastions in the UK of no-platforming and stamping out heterodox thought? On that basis, I'd suggest leavers might be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought...
Right, but overall, if you were looking at all the charts and you had to say which colour you thought would be more likely to be “capable of free thinking and rational thought.”Which one would you say?
One group has more higher earners, more ABC1 and more formal qualifications and higher education levels.
Be honest, If you had both groups in front of you and you had to pick one to be responsible for making an important decision. You would go for yellow wouldn’t you?
Again I was posting in reply to someone critical of the “free thinking and rational thought.” of remainers. Not me being critical of any one group.
And then, bolt-like, the thought occurs that your posited 'stronger' group would inevitably include HR professionals, and at that point I'm afraid the whole argument goes up in smoke.
stongle said:
El stovey said:
Right but perhaps you missed that it’s a reply to someone saying remainers aren’t capable of “free thinking and rational thought.”
The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
I know what you are saying, but as per my initial comments - you can buy a uni degree through leverage (either loans or parents re-mortgaging)...... I suspect we are amortising (down) the value. Your graph didn’t qualify the types of degrees (it's a wide range) either. And h123's claims of degree bought intelligence really haven’t panned out. Historically, I’d agree you would be correct – I’m not sure that will hold up for much longer though. But hey it’s an opinion.The evidence is actually that remainers are likely (not in all cases) to be more capable of free thinking and rational thought because they’ve generally ended up with better jobs etc.
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
Anecdotally, I work in an industry with probably the highest concentration of BOTH highly paid AND educated - and the Remain / BREXIT split is close to 50/50. If you read Financial press this is replicated (even Carney has flipped). Most of the reasons given for BREXIT are due to the fiscal / monetary imbalance (and the issues Brooking has also raised). BREXIT “should” make little difference to most; the peripheral policy responses are the biggest wins (Javid is replicating Germany relaxing the fiscal brake – MMT is all on). Neither of those featured in a mainstream BREXIT debate though did they……
I’m saying taken as a whole, it’s unlikely the group with higher levels of all of the above would be less capable of making decisions and free thinking, which is what I was replying to.
Incidentally powerstroke was doing exactly what you were complaining about I.e.
strongle said:
The fact people (or worse the media) believe all those groups are homogenous is fking dangerous, is the route to idiocracy.
When he was glibly applying characteristics to remainers as a whole.
Hayek said:
Unless these graphs correct for age then the number of formally educated people is meaningless. My Grandad (no longer with us) had no degree, was responsible for fitting ejector seats to aircraft, became an officer in the RN, and later ran a post office. I suspect he had more going on up there than someone who has completed an arty degree and five years later still lives with mummy and daddy whilst earning pocket money in a minimum-wage job (there's plenty of them).
I’m sure we can all come up with anecdotal stuff. My Grandad fits that perfectly, but that’s was then and this is now.Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
Nickgnome said:
I’m sure we can all come up with anecdotal stuff. My Grandad fits that perfectly, but that’s was then and this is now.
Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
What a nonsense. Some degrees are a complete joke. A waste of time and money, and a shameful con on those thick enough to get them. Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
How does saying that reflect on me?
Nickgnome said:
Hayek said:
Unless these graphs correct for age then the number of formally educated people is meaningless. My Grandad (no longer with us) had no degree, was responsible for fitting ejector seats to aircraft, became an officer in the RN, and later ran a post office. I suspect he had more going on up there than someone who has completed an arty degree and five years later still lives with mummy and daddy whilst earning pocket money in a minimum-wage job (there's plenty of them).
I’m sure we can all come up with anecdotal stuff. My Grandad fits that perfectly, but that’s was then and this is now.Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
Hayek said:
Unless these graphs correct for age then the number of formally educated people is meaningless. My Grandad (no longer with us) had no degree, was responsible for fitting ejector seats to aircraft, became an officer in the RN, and later ran a post office. I suspect he had more going on up there than someone who has completed an arty degree and five years later still lives with mummy and daddy whilst earning pocket money in a minimum-wage job (there's plenty of them).
Why is everyone focusing on education that’s just one section? If you were living with mummy and daddy and in a minimum wage job you wouldn’t be in ABC1 or a higher earner.
if your grandad ran a post office then he would be ABC1 and he’d likely be in a higher salary group too. Which he likely achieved as he had good decision making abilities? Which is the point I’m making, taken as a whole the yellow group is likely to be better at making decisions than the blue group. That’s all.
SpeckledJim said:
Nickgnome said:
I’m sure we can all come up with anecdotal stuff. My Grandad fits that perfectly, but that’s was then and this is now.
Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
What a nonsense. Some degrees are a complete joke. A waste of time and money, and a shameful con on those thick enough to get them. Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
How does saying that reflect on me?
WinstonWolf said:
Don't tell me, you've got the BSc (Hons) in Surf Science and Technology that is being offered by Plymouth?
To be fair... That's a f
king awesome, and likely pretty damned difficult degree! Check out the emerging wave pools, and the artificial reefs being installed to both create recreational surfing waves as well as dispersing wave energy prior to it hitting shore/sea defences...
I'd be very happy if degrees like that enable the UK to be at the forefront of a potentially huge global industry.
Nickgnome said:
230TE said:
El stovey said:
Honestly, if you looked at these statistics
which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
Looking at those statistics as presented I'd say highly educated people are incapable of producing easily comprehensible infographics. I've thought about them until my head hurts and I still can't work out what the hell they are supposed to be showing us.which group would you say was likely to be the more capable of free thinking and rational thought?
El stovey said:
.....
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
I'm not demeaning any group, but...I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
Look at these pictures with which I demonstrate that's exactly what I am doing/trying to do as I have been for over 3yrs to rationalise a decision going a way I believe to be wrong.
It'll eat you up inside if you let it fella. Either start to understand the real reasons people voted Leave or take up crochet. It's the only way your mental health won't suffer
Hayek said:
SpeckledJim said:
Nickgnome said:
I’m sure we can all come up with anecdotal stuff. My Grandad fits that perfectly, but that’s was then and this is now.
Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
What a nonsense. Some degrees are a complete joke. A waste of time and money, and a shameful con on those thick enough to get them. Disparaging degrees is a reflection on yourself not the quality of the degree or student/graduate.
How does saying that reflect on me?
Degrees (and I have 2) certainly imply knowledge and decision making ability relating to the subject of the degree, they do not imply such ability in general. It's always argued that some kind of mental discipline is acquired which is a transferable skill, but this ignores the fact that spending those years working for a living can also the beneficial. More importantly, too many graduates simply refuse to use their supposed intellectual firepower on anything outside their speciality. Especially if it isn't seen as an academic discipline. They assume it's all obvious.
I have friends who are driving instructors and flying instructors and they find high powered graduates terrible to train. They just don't accept that a subject like driving a car or flying a plane can possibly require thought.
EG Medical student learning to drive asked 'how would you check the lights work', studied the warning lights on the instrument panel then said 'I don't know'. She was the one who when shown how to adjust the driving seat on her first lesson said 'Will I have to do this on my test?'.
Barrister learning to fly asked 'If the engine stopped now, what would you do?' Long pause, 'hmm', another pause then 'well somebody must be responsible'.
Murph7355 said:
El stovey said:
.....
I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
I'm not demeaning any group, but...I’m not demeaning any group just replying to someone saying remainers are incapable of free thinking and rational thought and the data suggests quite the opposite.
Look at these pictures with which I demonstrate that's exactly what I am doing/trying to do as I have been for over 3yrs to rationalise a decision going a way I believe to be wrong.
It'll eat you up inside if you let it fella. Either start to understand the real reasons people voted Leave or take up crochet. It's the only way your mental health won't suffer
Seems odd that you lot concerned about groups being stereotyped or demeaned aren’t commenting on powerstroke who was actually doing exactly that instead of rushing to play the victim card.
Why on earth do I need to understand why you voted to leave or want to demean you? I couldn’t care less why you or anyone else voted to leave or remain, it doesn’t influence my opinion of you or anyone else at all. I’ve got loads of friends who are leavers and remainers, it matters not one bit to me.
I was posting that picture to illustrate to powerstroke that he was again posting polarised tribal rubbish.
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