How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

[stongle]

Digga said:

he 30 day withdrawal is idiotic and symptomatic of an organisation out of touch with financial reality.

It would hurt the EU nearly as much as the UK to have that Sword of Damocles dangling over FS.

It's the alpha argument that displays EC protectionist behaviour. Remain has nothing in the gamebag to counter it. The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do, so a different policy framework is required (we are also one country, one currency).

A few choose that it doesn't exist (so every 24 hours its "what's the benefits of divergence???").

The way the EC choose to wield and deploy it, is little short of racketeering.

It serves zero purpose other than coercion.

[Blackpuddin]

Mrr T said:

I believe you are retired, will you be picking crops or wiping bums?

[Helicopter123]

DeepEnd said:

s2art said:

silentbrown said:

s2art said:

Correct. As we did before FoM.

70,000 needed. We're allowing 10,000

And that can change.

So we let in the same as before but with more paperwork and resentment.

The loss of FoM is going to deliver a huge problem for many sectors.

[silentbrown]

s2art said:

The system worked just fine for many, many years before FoM.

What 'system'? Do you mean when we had FoM with commonwealth countries, or some other time?

[Vanden Saab]

Helicopter123 said:

DeepEnd said:

s2art said:

silentbrown said:

s2art said:

Correct. As we did before FoM.

70,000 needed. We're allowing 10,000

And that can change.

So we let in the same as before but with more paperwork and resentment.

The loss of FoM is going to deliver a huge problem for many sectors.

Do you mean a problem for the few who benefit from paying lower wages or the majority including the new immigrants who will benefit from higher wages?

[hutchst]

silentbrown said:

What 'system'? Do you mean when we had FoM with commonwealth countries, or some other time?

It worked OK when we were in the Common Market.

[crankedup]

Mrr T said:

crankedup said:

Governments new immigration policy published today, much of which has been known for weeks, but now confirmed. A quick google las it all out. Pleased to see a more realistic wage baseline at
£25600 annual which indicates that the U.K. will no longer continue on the low wage economy route
inviting in just about anybody who wants access. It will also be the start point ending credit payments to low cost employment, about time some will say, including me.
So this major announcement draws a line in the rock, no more FOM but a warm welcome to those
that bring the skills required by U.K. business. Some exceptions will be made in certain sectors and as we now (end of 2020) have the control on immigration will be able to adjust as we require.

We know agriculture is highly dependant on EU immigrants to pick crops. As is the care sector. All of those jobs will be below the minimum, which is actually average earnings in most parts of the EU. According to our great Home Secretary the shortfall will be filled by the economically inactive. I believe you are retired will you be picking crops or wiping bums?

We in the U.K. have a very distorted view on who should look after our parents, imo it is the primary responsibility of the immeadiate family. Of course some will require medication which has to be administered by qualified staff, we used to have the benefit of home visits by professionals, this has diminished over the years but I see no reason why a scheme cannot be re-introduced.
When you retire will you be picking crops and wiping bums?
As for agriculture, look back over the past decades and notice the march of technology and how this has affected labour levels in fields. Do you imagine that somehow technology of the future will not continue to affect labour levels’on the farm’? Or are you in favour of people cutting cabbages in frozen fields for minimum wage?

Edited by crankedup on Wednesday 19th February 13:35

[citizensm1th]

If only we belive hard enough it will all be alright in the end

[crankedup]

Jimbeaux said:

Mrr T said:

We know agriculture is highly dependant on EU immigrants to pick crops. As is the care sector. All of those jobs will be below the minimum, which is actually average earnings in most parts of the EU. According to our great Home Secretary the shortfall will be filled by the economically inactive. I believe you are retired will you be picking crops or wiping bums?

This is interesting. We are proposing similar changes in a minimum self sustainability for entrance. That would preclude migrant workers who pick crops (which we need in the U.S.). We have special seasonal visas specifically for crop work. I assume you would do similar as a way around you higher standard for permanent entry?

Yes our Government have identified the need for exceptions in the new immigration system in the form of visas for up to one year.

[Mrr T]

Jimbeaux said:

Mrr T said:

We know agriculture is highly dependant on EU immigrants to pick crops. As is the care sector. All of those jobs will be below the minimum, which is actually average earnings in most parts of the EU. According to our great Home Secretary the shortfall will be filled by the economically inactive. I believe you are retired will you be picking crops or wiping bums?

This is interesting. We are proposing similar changes in a minimum self sustainability for entrance. That would preclude migrant workers who pick crops (which we need in the U.S.). We have special seasonal visas specifically for crop work. I assume you would do similar as a way around you higher standard for permanent entry?

That's not in the current proposals. I can see you could have seasonal visas for crop work but I suspect it would still be complex. For work as a carer this is not seasonal work.

The problem I see is the motivation of the people doing the work. For this you need to know about UK house prices. Rents plus property taxes are very high. Renting on minimal wage leaves very little money and is not likely to be better than where you come from.

I cannot claim any research other than knowing 6 people who did these jobs, 2 on farms and 4 in care homes. 3 where qualified nurses, 1 had a degree not sure what in. All came to the UK with little saving and looking to get better jobs.

All took the work because they could start immediately. 4 of the jobs came with accommodation, 2 stayed with us. They worked to build up enough money to rent, to improve their English, and look for better paid work. All stayed for as long as they had then moved on. Without this opportunity none would have done the work. Remove the option and the people will not do the work.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Higher social care costs then which we will all pay for one way or another.

[crankedup]

Helicopter123 said:

DeepEnd said:

s2art said:

silentbrown said:

s2art said:

Correct. As we did before FoM.

70,000 needed. We're allowing 10,000

And that can change.

So we let in the same as before but with more paperwork and resentment.

The loss of FoM is going to deliver a huge problem for many sectors.

Yes those businesses are going to have to invest in training the indigenous workers and pay a decent wage No longer will they be able to pull in cheap labour from the EU, they will have to start managing not depending.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

crankedup said:

Yes those businesses are going to have to invest in training the indigenous workers and pay a decent wage No longer will they be able to pull in cheap labour from the EU, they will have to start managing not depending.

Getting your axe out again cranked?

[crankedup]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Higher social care costs then which we will all pay for one way or another.

Learn to look after your family, you know take some responsibility yourself.

[crankedup]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

crankedup said:

Yes those businesses are going to have to invest in training the indigenous workers and pay a decent wage No longer will they be able to pull in cheap labour from the EU, they will have to start managing not depending.

Getting your axe out again cranked?

Am I wrong in my assertion?

[Mrr T]

crankedup said:

We in the U.K. have a very distorted view on who should look after our parents, imo it is the primary responsibility of the immeadiate family. Of course some will require medication which has to be administered by qualified staff, we used to have the benefit of home visits by professionals, this has diminished over the years but I see no reason why a scheme cannot be re-introduced.
When you retire will you be picking crops and wiping bums?
As for agriculture, look back over the past decades and notice the march of technology and how this has affected labour levels in fields. Do you imagine that somehow technology of the future will not continue to affect labour levels’on the farm’? Or are you in favour of people cutting cabbages in frozen fields for minimum wage?

Edited by crankedup on Wednesday 19th February 13:35

So you want the government to legislate to force families to look after aged parents? Best of luck with that. Will you be telling your children they need to have a room ready because when you have dementia and are incontinent you will be moving in?

As farming you need to catch up. There is a lot of machinery but also many task which are almost impossible for machinery to do.

As for me, I am retired, but since I voted remain and think this is a stupid and ill thought out policy I do not feel I need to step up. I will also soon be off.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

crankedup said:

Learn to look after your family, you know take some responsibility yourself.

Nobody to look after me but me.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

crankedup said:

Am I wrong in my assertion?

Yup, but you will never agree so little point in discussing.

[Dont like rolls]

crankedup said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Higher social care costs then which we will all pay for one way or another.

Learn to look after your family, you know take some responsibility yourself.

This, it is shocking (I am directly involved) how few people do take responsibility. To many, all they do is pop-in for 1 hour a week, as many don't even bother doing that. It is very very noticeable if you have spent time on hospital OAP wards or care homes, it gets worse when the OAP is in need of more care AND attention (dementia).

The Social Care System is broken, from family to the Business model (it should not be a high profit business). I for one hope the Conservatives address it across the board.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

Dont like rolls said:

This, it is shocking (I am directly involved) how few people do take responsibility. To many, all they do is pop-in for 1 hour a week, as many don't even bother doing that. It is very very noticeable if you have spent time on hospital OAP wards or care homes, it gets worse when the OAP is in need of more care AND attention (dementia).

The Social Care System is broken, from family to the Business model (it should not be a high profit business). I for one hope the Conservatives address it across the board.

What if you don't have children?