How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

[gooner1]

DeepEnd said:

I think you need to ask “what makes me think the EU proposal is actually far more menacing than the canada deal - what is the real evidence you have”?

Sounds like superficial Daily Mail baseless wailing at the moment.

Why do you suppose the EU proposal was not included in Canada's deal?

[amusingduck]

jamoor said:

Sway said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Sway said:

They'll care if RoW oranges are several percent cheaper, that's a lower landed price than the Spanish can produce for - and the EU are being difficult in agreeing a FTA...

I still don't get your argument.

If the UK aren't going to charge import tariffs it doesn't matter whether or not there is a UK:EU FTA or not, the Spanish orange grower will be competing against the ROW farmer without tariff interference.

Or are you claiming the UK:EU FTA will require the UK to impose tariffs on ROW oranges?

They don't have to be slashed to zero. Spanish citrus are more expensive than North African citrus, even with their CAP subsidies.

I'm sure if we had the tariff at say 5% there'd be a strong push from Spanish citrus farmers for theirs to be operating at 0% - and either way would be a big drop in price for consumers.

I wonder what types of pesticides will be used on the African citrus

Probably the same ones used on Kenyan coffee today you bigot

[crankedup]

gooner1 said:

DeepEnd said:

I think you need to ask “what makes me think the EU proposal is actually far more menacing than the canada deal - what is the real evidence you have”?

Sounds like superficial Daily Mail baseless wailing at the moment.

Why do you suppose the EU proposal was not included in Canada's deal?

Erm
because it would make the ‘angry brigade’ even more angry, so angry their heads would explode!
Sorry everyone, couldn’t resist a bit of banter

[hutchst]

DeepEnd said:

I think you need to ask “what makes me think the EU proposal is actually far more menacing than the canada deal - what is the real evidence you have”?

Sounds like superficial Daily Mail baseless wailing at the moment.

The document linked earlier is the actual Agreement.

I would advise you not to read it, it will make your head explode.

[hutchst]

Tuna said:

DeepEnd has gone into full on fingers in the ears "lalala, not listening" mode. Everyone around him is apparently angry

He's just projecting.

[Sway]

jamoor said:

Sway said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Sway said:

They'll care if RoW oranges are several percent cheaper, that's a lower landed price than the Spanish can produce for - and the EU are being difficult in agreeing a FTA...

I still don't get your argument.

If the UK aren't going to charge import tariffs it doesn't matter whether or not there is a UK:EU FTA or not, the Spanish orange grower will be competing against the ROW farmer without tariff interference.

Or are you claiming the UK:EU FTA will require the UK to impose tariffs on ROW oranges?

They don't have to be slashed to zero. Spanish citrus are more expensive than North African citrus, even with their CAP subsidies.

I'm sure if we had the tariff at say 5% there'd be a strong push from Spanish citrus farmers for theirs to be operating at 0% - and either way would be a big drop in price for consumers.

I wonder what types of pesticides will be used on the African citrus

The same ones as those used on products imported from there today...

Tad racist to think they've lower standards, isn't it?

[barryrs]

pgh said:

So the EU using tariffs to hinder Africa, (///DeepEnd mode) isn't that a bit well you know?

Only if they have the audacity to try and refine their own crops!

[Sway]

barryrs said:

pgh said:

So the EU using tariffs to hinder Africa, (///DeepEnd mode) isn't that a bit well you know?

Only if they have the audacity to try and refine their own crops!

Indeed. Raw versus roasted coffee beans being a great example...

[DeepEnd]

Loving the anger at the prospect of a bit of alignment.

“Sue, you’re shouting at tea”



And still not a single example of where brexiters want to be not aligned so we can make loads of GDP.

[PushedDover]

DeepEnd said:

And still not a single example of where brexiters want to be not aligned so we can make loads of GDP.

I see it as optional alignment. We align if and where the UK wants. We dont where we don't. What is the problem with that ?

[DeepEnd]

PushedDover said:

DeepEnd said:

And still not a single example of where brexiters want to be not aligned so we can make loads of GDP.

I see it as optional alignment. We align if and where the UK wants. We dont where we don't. What is the problem with that ?

None at all.

Have you got a proposal to stop alignment and the forecasts for the resulting cash bonanza?

Or shall we go “no deal” on the basis someone might think of something, eventually?

[SpeckledJim]

DeepEnd said:

Loving the anger at the prospect of a bit of alignment.

“Sue, you’re shouting at tea”



And still not a single example of where brexiters want to be not aligned so we can make loads of GDP.

The assumption being that the EU suite of rules are ‘correct’. And anything different is some degree of undesirable.

Because things are going really well in the EU? And badly elsewhere?

Pick a wider horizon. The EU is a small part of the world, and it’s in decline. Starting from scratch there’s no way you’d choose to copy their plan. Because it’s clearly not working.

[DeepEnd]

SpeckledJim said:

The assumption being that the EU suite of rules are ‘correct’. And anything different is some degree of undesirable.

Because things are going really well in the EU? And badly elsewhere?

Pick a wider horizon. The EU is a small part of the world, and it’s in decline. Starting from scratch there’s no way you’d choose to copy their plan. Because it’s clearly not working.

Should be easy to come up with an example then oh worldly wise one.

[SpeckledJim]

DeepEnd said:

SpeckledJim said:

The assumption being that the EU suite of rules are ‘correct’. And anything different is some degree of undesirable.

Because things are going really well in the EU? And badly elsewhere?

Pick a wider horizon. The EU is a small part of the world, and it’s in decline. Starting from scratch there’s no way you’d choose to copy their plan. Because it’s clearly not working.

Should be easy to come up with an example then oh worldly wise one.

What about our old favourite chlorinated chicken?

[PushedDover]

for fks sake guys

[Vanden Saab]

Interesting observation by Wolfgang Munchau

Wolfgang said:

In theory the EU has better cards in negotiations with UK because it is larger. But UK can achieve its main negotiating goal unilaterally by walking away, while EU cannot.

[SpeckledJim]

Vanden Saab said:

Interesting observation by Wolfgang Munchau

Wolfgang said:

In theory the EU has better cards in negotiations with UK because it is larger. But UK can achieve its main negotiating goal unilaterally by walking away, while EU cannot.

I think the first clause of that sentence is facile. It doesn’t take into account two parties wanting to achieve different things.

Second point I disagree with. We both want an FTA.

[anonymous-user]

I don't see much to disagree with, does anyone?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-app...

[Tuna]

DeepEnd said:

Loving the anger at the prospect of a bit of alignment.

“Sue, you’re shouting at tea”



And still not a single example of where brexiters want to be not aligned so we can make loads of GDP.

You're repeating your strawman argument in the hope that we stop pointing out it makes no sense? Well done!

[Tuna]

SpeckledJim said:

Second point I disagree with. We both want an FTA.

You're projecting there. An FTA would be very helpful for sure, but that's not the exclusive goal of the UK, is it? If all 'we' wanted was an FTA, 'we' would have voted Remain, voted for a Remain government, and voted to revoke A50.

Turns out we didn't.

So no, we don't want an FTA. At least not at the cost of all the other things we want.