39 bodies found in Lorry : illegals ?
Discussion
Shakermaker said:
milkround said:
Short answer is no.
You are meant to make sure it's secure. Which might involve looking at it. How deeply you look is another question. On a box trailer all I care about it making sure the back of it is reasonably secure - so might put a bar or two or some straps over the back. I'm not climbing all over the load to look in the back. I'd end up damaging stuff and I'd get in trouble. I also might get hurt.
That being said - the real world enters. If you have a bonded sealed trailer and decide to pull the seal off (if you can as many of them are steel cables requiring bolt butters to remove) if anything is missing you will be called a thief, can lose your job, and might even be investigated by the Police. You will also most likely be turned away when you try and deliver it and have to explain to your boss why you have cost the company loads of money.
I pull trailers full of pharmaceuticals - and we go over the water a bit. Once the doors are locked I am not opening them. I also won't actually know what I'm carrying. I'll know if it's dangerous and it's weight. It's high value so I have a list of numbers and weights. If the big big companies decided to go rogue I could be pulling a trailer full of cocaine. I'd have no way of knowing.
So you know "sort of" what you are pulling - you say pharmaceuticals, or I guess you could say groceries, electricals etc. But you aren't going to say "I've got 4,000 packets of ibuprofen, 200 boxes of Ralgex and 9,000 boxes of Tampax" to be specific?You are meant to make sure it's secure. Which might involve looking at it. How deeply you look is another question. On a box trailer all I care about it making sure the back of it is reasonably secure - so might put a bar or two or some straps over the back. I'm not climbing all over the load to look in the back. I'd end up damaging stuff and I'd get in trouble. I also might get hurt.
That being said - the real world enters. If you have a bonded sealed trailer and decide to pull the seal off (if you can as many of them are steel cables requiring bolt butters to remove) if anything is missing you will be called a thief, can lose your job, and might even be investigated by the Police. You will also most likely be turned away when you try and deliver it and have to explain to your boss why you have cost the company loads of money.
I pull trailers full of pharmaceuticals - and we go over the water a bit. Once the doors are locked I am not opening them. I also won't actually know what I'm carrying. I'll know if it's dangerous and it's weight. It's high value so I have a list of numbers and weights. If the big big companies decided to go rogue I could be pulling a trailer full of cocaine. I'd have no way of knowing.
But if someone earlier in the chain has stitched him up with a dangerous/illegal cargo, there's no practical way for the driver to know. They'd have to rely on that as a defence, which is a bit scary for innocent HGV drivers, especially in circumstances like this.
SpeckledJim said:
I think the point is that the driver thinks they know what they're carrying.
But if someone earlier in the chain has stitched him up with a dangerous/illegal cargo, there's no practical way for the driver to know. They'd have to rely on that as a defence, which is a bit scary for innocent HGV drivers, especially in circumstances like this.
True, though of course an innocent HGV driver isn't in circumstances like this, because this chap has been involved in the trafficking, at least, according to his plea which I assume is based on evidence from the investigation.But if someone earlier in the chain has stitched him up with a dangerous/illegal cargo, there's no practical way for the driver to know. They'd have to rely on that as a defence, which is a bit scary for innocent HGV drivers, especially in circumstances like this.
Shakermaker said:
SpeckledJim said:
I think the point is that the driver thinks they know what they're carrying.
But if someone earlier in the chain has stitched him up with a dangerous/illegal cargo, there's no practical way for the driver to know. They'd have to rely on that as a defence, which is a bit scary for innocent HGV drivers, especially in circumstances like this.
True, though of course an innocent HGV driver isn't in circumstances like this, because this chap has been involved in the trafficking, at least, according to his plea which I assume is based on evidence from the investigation.But if someone earlier in the chain has stitched him up with a dangerous/illegal cargo, there's no practical way for the driver to know. They'd have to rely on that as a defence, which is a bit scary for innocent HGV drivers, especially in circumstances like this.
But that's not to say an innocent HGV driver couldn't have a trailer full of bodies and remain innocent. As described above by our HGV-driving friend, they've no realistic way of checking and have to place their trust in the people around them.
(I'm talking in the round, not about Mo)
CoolHands said:
I was surprised that even in the 2 weeks following this event other lorries were stopped with human cargo. They really don’t give a s
t, they just want money. Anyone involved including drivers need to be put away for 30 years every time.
Take what I'm about to say as seriously as you want. I'm just a random guy on the internet. t, they just want money. Anyone involved including drivers need to be put away for 30 years every time.But once you have done it once you have no choice. I've been warned by very experienced drivers about it. If you bring drugs or other stuff once it's nearly impossible to say no the next time. The people paying you to do it might show you pictures of your kids and the schools they go to... And you have no way of protecting them. You can't go to the Police and admit to bringing in loads of class a etc. So you are trapped. If they break your legs or put a shotgun in your face you can't go to the law. It must be a living hell for those stupid enough to get trapped in it.
I think nearly all drivers who have gone abroad have been offered money to do things. Be it bringing back booze or smokes or more serious stuff. When times are hard as humans we can excuse things in many ways etc... But those warnings mean most of us flatly say no.
milkround said:
Take what I'm about to say as seriously as you want. I'm just a random guy on the internet.
But once you have done it once you have no choice. I've been warned by very experienced drivers about it. If you bring drugs or other stuff once it's nearly impossible to say no the next time. The people paying you to do it might show you pictures of your kids and the schools they go to... And you have no way of protecting them. You can't go to the Police and admit to bringing in loads of class a etc. So you are trapped. If they break your legs or put a shotgun in your face you can't go to the law. It must be a living hell for those stupid enough to get trapped in it.
I think nearly all drivers who have gone abroad have been offered money to do things. Be it bringing back booze or smokes or more serious stuff. When times are hard as humans we can excuse things in many ways etc... But those warnings mean most of us flatly say no.
Nah, don't buy that. Boo boo life is tough. If you start being a criminal when the chips are down don't be surprised you'll be fBut once you have done it once you have no choice. I've been warned by very experienced drivers about it. If you bring drugs or other stuff once it's nearly impossible to say no the next time. The people paying you to do it might show you pictures of your kids and the schools they go to... And you have no way of protecting them. You can't go to the Police and admit to bringing in loads of class a etc. So you are trapped. If they break your legs or put a shotgun in your face you can't go to the law. It must be a living hell for those stupid enough to get trapped in it.
I think nearly all drivers who have gone abroad have been offered money to do things. Be it bringing back booze or smokes or more serious stuff. When times are hard as humans we can excuse things in many ways etc... But those warnings mean most of us flatly say no.
ked over. If you can't keep your moral compass when it's st it means deep down you were probably always going to end up getting fked over.milkround said:
Short answer is no.
You are meant to make sure it's secure. Which might involve looking at it. How deeply you look is another question. On a box trailer all I care about it making sure the back of it is reasonably secure - so might put a bar or two or some straps over the back. I'm not climbing all over the load to look in the back. I'd end up damaging stuff and I'd get in trouble. I also might get hurt.
That being said - the real world enters. If you have a bonded sealed trailer and decide to pull the seal off (if you can as many of them are steel cables requiring bolt butters to remove) if anything is missing you will be called a thief, can lose your job, and might even be investigated by the Police. You will also most likely be turned away when you try and deliver it and have to explain to your boss why you have cost the company loads of money.
I pull trailers full of pharmaceuticals - and we go over the water a bit. Once the doors are locked I am not opening them. I also won't actually know what I'm carrying. I'll know if it's dangerous and it's weight. It's high value so I have a list of numbers and weights. If the big big companies decided to go rogue I could be pulling a trailer full of cocaine. I'd have no way of knowing.
Isn't there an easy solution to this?You are meant to make sure it's secure. Which might involve looking at it. How deeply you look is another question. On a box trailer all I care about it making sure the back of it is reasonably secure - so might put a bar or two or some straps over the back. I'm not climbing all over the load to look in the back. I'd end up damaging stuff and I'd get in trouble. I also might get hurt.
That being said - the real world enters. If you have a bonded sealed trailer and decide to pull the seal off (if you can as many of them are steel cables requiring bolt butters to remove) if anything is missing you will be called a thief, can lose your job, and might even be investigated by the Police. You will also most likely be turned away when you try and deliver it and have to explain to your boss why you have cost the company loads of money.
I pull trailers full of pharmaceuticals - and we go over the water a bit. Once the doors are locked I am not opening them. I also won't actually know what I'm carrying. I'll know if it's dangerous and it's weight. It's high value so I have a list of numbers and weights. If the big big companies decided to go rogue I could be pulling a trailer full of cocaine. I'd have no way of knowing.
Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
xjay1337 said:
Isn't there an easy solution to this?
Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
That doesn't sound as easy or as cheap to implement as you suggest. Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
Use 50 litres of fuel and you've lost what, 40kg of weight?
Edited by Shakermaker on Monday 25th November 16:51
Edited by Shakermaker on Monday 25th November 16:51
xjay1337 said:
Isn't there an easy solution to this?
Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
Yeah but that's just not possible. Because...Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
The diesel you use or pick up can easily weigh more than a few people.
And you will br dropping off and probably picking up a different load. Which will weigh a different amount. Not all sites have weighbridges. You would be surprised at drops you will do in an artic. For this idea to work every site that could possible get a delivery for an artic would need to have a weigh-bridge. Which is not realistic. Especially when they would all need calibrating.
Cameras in trailers is an interesting idea. But who monitors them? If something dodgy goes on they will just be damaged and destroyed. Plus how much would it cost to retrospectively fit every trailer in Europe with these cameras?
Edited by milkround on Monday 25th November 16:52
xjay1337 said:
Isn't there an easy solution to this?
Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
Everywhere a truck gets loaded needs a calibrated weigh-bridge!?Trailers are weighed when loaded, and have some sort of key card that has this information.
Let's say it's 25T with any given load.
You go through borders, your trailer is weighed on some plates installed in the ground.
You weigh and then scan your card.
The weight is measured and compared to the weight that is registered on the card.
They don't have to be super accurate.... within 10KG... even one skinny immigrant would be easily picked up? Also maybe install a basic security camera in trailers. Again very low cost.
And all the baddies need to do to beat the system is put their illegal cargo in before they weigh it?
Or anyone jumping-in post-that-point just needs to throw out some stuff that weighs as much as they do?
Lily the Pink said:
xjay1337 said:
Isn't there an easy solution to this?
As I think was suggested way back in this thread ... fit CO2 monitors in every trailer, with a Bluetooth connection which the driver has to check with his smartphone.Sgt Bilko said:
Useless when a hole is slashed in the roof lining to allow CO2 to escape....
Or it's a curtainsider. For everything you can do people will just move onto something else.
The only way to stop smuggling is to employ shed loads of customs officers to check all the trailers all the time. It would cost loads of money and slow stuff down so it's not going to happen.
Shakermaker said:
That doesn't sound as easy or as cheap to implement as you suggest.
Use 50 litres of fuel and you've lost what, 40kg of weight?
When I was regularly running 5000 litres of oil a time, from the Burmah-Castrol depot in London, to Stanlow oil refinery, Ellesmere Port, I’d drop the trailer on the weighbridge after loading, then drop it again on arrival at Stanlow, that way, it didn’t matter if the diesel tank was half empty or full, it was being weighed, as the fuel tank was attached to the tractor unit, and just the trailer was being weighed.Use 50 litres of fuel and you've lost what, 40kg of weight?
Edited by Shakermaker on Monday 25th November 16:51
Edited by Shakermaker on Monday 25th November 16:51
milkround said:
Cameras in trailers is an interesting idea. But who monitors them? If something dodgy goes on they will just be damaged and destroyed. Plus how much would it cost to retrospectively fit every trailer in Europe with these cameras?
The driver ??Edited by milkround on Monday 25th November 16:52
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-800TVL-Security-Su...
Cost way less than £100 per trailer to install.....
SpeckledJim said:
Everywhere a truck gets loaded needs a calibrated weigh-bridge!?
And all the baddies need to do to beat the system is put their illegal cargo in before they weigh it?
Or anyone jumping-in post-that-point just needs to throw out some stuff that weighs as much as they do?
On board weighing system like those used on refuse collection, bulk material transport etc?And all the baddies need to do to beat the system is put their illegal cargo in before they weigh it?
Or anyone jumping-in post-that-point just needs to throw out some stuff that weighs as much as they do?
xjay1337 said:
The driver ??
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-800TVL-Security-Su...
Cost way less than £100 per trailer to install.....
So let me just get this right. https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-800TVL-Security-Su...
Cost way less than £100 per trailer to install.....
You expect the driver to drive the truck. Whilst watching some CCTV system. And everytime he stops he has to sit there not daring to leave the cab watching this CCTV screen?
That's before we get into that most trailers are loaded and people can be hidden out of the way very easily.
milkround said:
xjay1337 said:
The driver ??
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-800TVL-Security-Su...
Cost way less than £100 per trailer to install.....
So let me just get this right. https://www.amazon.co.uk/SANNCE-800TVL-Security-Su...
Cost way less than £100 per trailer to install.....
You expect the driver to drive the truck. Whilst watching some CCTV system. And everytime he stops he has to sit there not daring to leave the cab watching this CCTV screen?
That's before we get into that most trailers are loaded and people can be hidden out of the way very easily.
I'm not sure how on earth you got what you wrote from what I wrote.
You would simply check it , glance at it, periodically, same way you GLANCE at your trip computer.
Merely a suggestion, anyway. I'm not a lorryist so I don't care either way.
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