39 bodies found in Lorry : illegals ?

[anonymous-user]

Sgt Bilko said:

SpeckledJim said:

CoolHands said:

So how long will he get for the ‘assisting’? And will he himself ever get prosecuted for manslaughter of the 39?

This is so high-profile, and so high-consequence for the rest of the 'industry' that they've got to hit him with absolutely everything they've got, surely?

Are the police able to ascertain whether the victims were already dead by the time he collected the trailer? And is that relevant to whether or not he is partly responsible for their deaths?

(genuine questions)

For the “assisting” offences the aggravating factors in R v Le / Stark apply IIRC. Per person it’s a maximum of 14 years, but no one goes near that. Starting point is 3 years. Then the factors of
1. Financial gain
2. Degree of planning
3. Numbers involved
4. Were any family members to the offender

So depending on what the investigation has thrown up about cash linked to this incident, he’s going away. For a long time. My bet..... (purely a bet of course) 20-25 when factoring in totality of sentences and early guilty plea. The deaths won’t have a factor in that offence but the judge won’t be thinking about going soft in this one.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 25th November 14:35

Merry Christmas Mo!

[pequod]

Frank7 said:

When I was regularly running 5000 litres of oil a time, from the Burmah-Castrol depot in London, to Stanlow oil refinery, Ellesmere Port, I’d drop the trailer on the weighbridge after loading, then drop it again on arrival at Stanlow, that way, it didn’t matter if the diesel tank was half empty or full, it was being weighed, as the fuel tank was attached to the tractor unit, and just the trailer was being weighed.

Weighing the trailer and not the entire unit would provide a mismatch from the point of departure to its unloading depot, as you have found when running tankers in the UK, unfortunately, this has a problem when departure is in some unscrupulous 'ass end of Europe' that could easily foil that system.

[CoolHands]

Autonomy said:

Sgt Bilko said:

SpeckledJim said:

CoolHands said:

So how long will he get for the ‘assisting’? And will he himself ever get prosecuted for manslaughter of the 39?

This is so high-profile, and so high-consequence for the rest of the 'industry' that they've got to hit him with absolutely everything they've got, surely?

Are the police able to ascertain whether the victims were already dead by the time he collected the trailer? And is that relevant to whether or not he is partly responsible for their deaths?

(genuine questions)

For the “assisting” offences the aggravating factors in R v Le / Stark apply IIRC. Per person it’s a maximum of 14 years, but no one goes near that. Starting point is 3 years. Then the factors of
1. Financial gain
2. Degree of planning
3. Numbers involved
4. Were any family members to the offender

So depending on what the investigation has thrown up about cash linked to this incident, he’s going away. For a long time. My bet..... (purely a bet of course) 20-25 when factoring in totality of sentences and early guilty plea. The deaths won’t have a factor in that offence but the judge won’t be thinking about going soft in this one.

Edited by Sgt Bilko on Monday 25th November 14:35

Merry Christmas Mo!

haha. I bet he was the life & sole in the pubs and clubs. Won’t be laughing for 20 yrs now hopefully

[dvs_dave]

A simple motion sensor and alarm (with tamper alert) would do the trick. It’s virtually impossible to “hide” from one for any length of time, let alone for multiple people to. One at the front, one at the back, job jobbed.

[HedgeyGedgey]

Issue is, its nigh on impossible to check every single truck. No nation has the resources available to do such a thing

[Lily the Pink]

milkround said:

Sgt Bilko said:

Useless when a hole is slashed in the roof lining to allow CO2 to escape....

Or it's a curtainsider.

The concentration of CO2 would still be abnormal - unless there was a massive and obvious hole in the curtain. The roof could easily be checked at the docks - or even as the trailers emerge from the ferry's hold.

[Flumpo]

can more not be done about the people using these people as slaves once they get here.

Anyone caught using these guys as slaves to pick their turnips or whatever being sent down for 30 years might curb it.

I’m in two minds but anyone caught using a nail bar with slaves faces a hefty fine and criminal record. It might make people think twice from using them or a car wash.

I believe they already do something similar with men caught using traffic prostitute slaves. Although I’m not sure if it makes any difference.

I don’t know, remove the market and the crims will soon drop it. Only god knows where they graduate to next.

[Frank7]

pequod said:

Frank7 said:

When I was regularly running 5000 litres of oil a time, from the Burmah-Castrol depot in London, to Stanlow oil refinery, Ellesmere Port, I’d drop the trailer on the weighbridge after loading, then drop it again on arrival at Stanlow, that way, it didn’t matter if the diesel tank was half empty or full, it was being weighed, as the fuel tank was attached to the tractor unit, and just the trailer was being weighed.

Weighing the trailer and not the entire unit would provide a mismatch from the point of departure to its unloading depot, as you have found when running tankers in the UK, unfortunately, this has a problem when departure is in some unscrupulous 'ass end of Europe' that could easily foil that system.

Not sure that I get that, but I was just a dumb truck driver, so cut me some slack.
This was how it worked, I’d drop an empty tanker trailer on the weigh bridge, and it would be weighed, trailer only.
I’d then load 5000 litres of turbine oil, return to weigh bridge, and drop the trailer again, that would be weighed, again, trailer only.
I’d then drive to Stanlow, drop the loaded trailer on the weigh bridge, it would be weighed.
I’d then pump the turbine oil off and return to the weigh bridge, drop the empty trailer, it would be weighed again.
If, using purely imaginary figures plucked from the air, the loaded trailer weighed 20 tons after being loaded in London, and weighed 20 tons still, on arrival at Stanlow, where is the mismatch?

[Sgt Bilko]

Lily the Pink said:

The concentration of CO2 would still be abnormal - unless there was a massive and obvious hole in the curtain. The roof could easily be checked at the docks - or even as the trailers emerge from the ferry's hold.

Easy to think so, but no.

[Evanivitch]

Flumpo said:

can more not be done about the people using these people as slaves once they get here.

Anyone caught using these guys as slaves to pick their turnips or whatever being sent down for 30 years might curb it.

I’m in two minds but anyone caught using a nail bar with slaves faces a hefty fine and criminal record. It might make people think twice from using them or a car wash.

I believe they already do something similar with men caught using traffic prostitute slaves. Although I’m not sure if it makes any difference.

I don’t know, remove the market and the crims will soon drop it. Only god knows where they graduate to next.

Certainly can.

There's even an App out there that you can use to report suspicious business activities. They often hide in plain sight, at hand car washes, garden clearing services and many other low-skill labour jobs. If something seems to cheap, there's possibly a reason for it.

https://www.policeprofessional.com/news/smartphone...

Bit the other thing to bare in mind, all those people smoking illegal cannabis and claiming it's harmless, well no, it's not. Because much of the UK product is grown in industrial sized and slave operated facilities owned by well organised criminal gangs.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jul/26/vietn...

[Sgt Bilko]

Flumpo said:

can more not be done about the people using these people as slaves once they get here.

Anyone caught using these guys as slaves to pick their turnips or whatever being sent down for 30 years might curb it.

I’m in two minds but anyone caught using a nail bar with slaves faces a hefty fine and criminal record. It might make people think twice from using them or a car wash.

I believe they already do something similar with men caught using traffic prostitute slaves. Although I’m not sure if it makes any difference.

I don’t know, remove the market and the crims will soon drop it. Only god knows where they graduate to next.

A variety of penalties and fines exist already. If full on slavery and servitude maximum sentence is life under modern slavery act. If assisting un lawful immigration that’s max 14 years. However most likely it’s a £20,000 civil penalty per person. People still think it’s worth the risk, like most offences that exist.

[Laurel Green]

Man, 36, from Essex is arrested on suspicion of manslaughter over deaths of 39 Vietnamese migrants found dead in a lorry in the county last month.

[Art0ir]

Amazing the haulage industry which employs over 2.5million people in the UK alone has never thought of implementing any of these "simple" suggestions from members here.

[pequod]

Frank7 said:

Not sure that I get that, but I was just a dumb truck driver, so cut me some slack.
This was how it worked, I’d drop an empty tanker trailer on the weigh bridge, and it would be weighed, trailer only.
I’d then load 5000 litres of turbine oil, return to weigh bridge, and drop the trailer again, that would be weighed, again, trailer only.
I’d then drive to Stanlow, drop the loaded trailer on the weigh bridge, it would be weighed.
I’d then pump the turbine oil off and return to the weigh bridge, drop the empty trailer, it would be weighed again.
If, using purely imaginary figures plucked from the air, the loaded trailer weighed 20 tons after being loaded in London, and weighed 20 tons still, on arrival at Stanlow, where is the mismatch?

Apologies, my poor explanation and reading of your post as I thought you were providing a reason why smuggling, or in the scenario you described, stealing fuel oil is impossible due to metering and weighing the load. Probably is near impossible in the UK with our checking systems and certainly not worth it for a few litres of oil once in a while.
Substituting the weight of illegal immigrants with a legitimate load at the departure point that was then removed prior to them getting on board the trailer before it's weighed again and loaded onto the ferry, is fairly easy to achieve I would imagine for the organised crime fraternity. And, of course, the financial incentives will be too tempting for some of the truckers as we see in the case of MO.

[Randy Winkman]

Art0ir said:

Amazing the haulage industry which employs over 2.5million people in the UK alone has never thought of implementing any of these "simple" suggestions from members here.

For me, it was more the case that I thought that Government might make them do stuff.

[Thankyou4calling]

Has an official cause Of death been established/published yet?

[Oakey]

I'm sure I read they suffocated?

[Byker28i]

Frank7 said:

pequod said:

Frank7 said:

When I was regularly running 5000 litres of oil a time, from the Burmah-Castrol depot in London, to Stanlow oil refinery, Ellesmere Port, I’d drop the trailer on the weighbridge after loading, then drop it again on arrival at Stanlow, that way, it didn’t matter if the diesel tank was half empty or full, it was being weighed, as the fuel tank was attached to the tractor unit, and just the trailer was being weighed.

Weighing the trailer and not the entire unit would provide a mismatch from the point of departure to its unloading depot, as you have found when running tankers in the UK, unfortunately, this has a problem when departure is in some unscrupulous 'ass end of Europe' that could easily foil that system.

Not sure that I get that, but I was just a dumb truck driver, so cut me some slack.
This was how it worked, I’d drop an empty tanker trailer on the weigh bridge, and it would be weighed, trailer only.
I’d then load 5000 litres of turbine oil, return to weigh bridge, and drop the trailer again, that would be weighed, again, trailer only.
I’d then drive to Stanlow, drop the loaded trailer on the weigh bridge, it would be weighed.
I’d then pump the turbine oil off and return to the weigh bridge, drop the empty trailer, it would be weighed again.
If, using purely imaginary figures plucked from the air, the loaded trailer weighed 20 tons after being loaded in London, and weighed 20 tons still, on arrival at Stanlow, where is the mismatch?

Calibration? Are you sure each weighbridge weighs the same? Imagine the destination one weighs 50kg less each time, would your company accept that paper loss even though there wasn't one?

[rscott]

pequod said:

Frank7 said:

Not sure that I get that, but I was just a dumb truck driver, so cut me some slack.
This was how it worked, I’d drop an empty tanker trailer on the weigh bridge, and it would be weighed, trailer only.
I’d then load 5000 litres of turbine oil, return to weigh bridge, and drop the trailer again, that would be weighed, again, trailer only.
I’d then drive to Stanlow, drop the loaded trailer on the weigh bridge, it would be weighed.
I’d then pump the turbine oil off and return to the weigh bridge, drop the empty trailer, it would be weighed again.
If, using purely imaginary figures plucked from the air, the loaded trailer weighed 20 tons after being loaded in London, and weighed 20 tons still, on arrival at Stanlow, where is the mismatch?

Apologies, my poor explanation and reading of your post as I thought you were providing a reason why smuggling, or in the scenario you described, stealing fuel oil is impossible due to metering and weighing the load. Probably is near impossible in the UK with our checking systems and certainly not worth it for a few litres of oil once in a while.
Substituting the weight of illegal immigrants with a legitimate load at the departure point that was then removed prior to them getting on board the trailer before it's weighed again and loaded onto the ferry, is fairly easy to achieve I would imagine for the organised crime fraternity. And, of course, the financial incentives will be too tempting for some of the truckers as we see in the case of MO.

Pretty simple to defeat a weight based check - just have a hidden water tank built into the vehicle. Or even lead weights underneath.

My other half works with Border Force at a British port (part of the post Brexit processing team, so not doing much at the moment!)

She's been shown details of some of the tricks used by smugglers - hidden compartments which are opened using a remote control. In one case it was controlled via Bluetooth!
Containers with false walls, floors,etc.

[Digga]

rscott said:

Pretty simple to defeat a weight based check - just have a hidden water tank built into the vehicle. Or even lead weights underneath.

My other half works with Border Force at a British port (part of the post Brexit processing team, so not doing much at the moment!)

She's been shown details of some of the tricks used by smugglers - hidden compartments which are opened using a remote control. In one case it was controlled via Bluetooth!
Containers with false walls, floors,etc.

Yes, It is quite disheartening to see how porous our borders are and also how unscrupulous many people are.

Smuggling aside (which, on so many levels is wrong) the immigration policies need urgent overhaul, as do border controls. However, the notion of absolute control is illusory, even if, outside of the shackles of EU rules, the UK can do better.