39 bodies found in Lorry : illegals ?
Discussion
BrabusMog said:
roadsmash said:
Ructions said:
roadsmash said:
Ructions said:
It’s quite rare to get a life sentence for manslaughter, add in the early guilty plea and he’ll possibly be looking at ten to fifteen years. If he gets a permanent transfer back to the north of Ireland, where he is originally from, he will qualify for fifty percent remission.
Won’t each person be a separate indictment? So he will be punished for each death? IANAL.Point being, it’s negligible really... he dies in prison.
BrabusMog said:
roadsmash said:
Ructions said:
roadsmash said:
Ructions said:
It’s quite rare to get a life sentence for manslaughter, add in the early guilty plea and he’ll possibly be looking at ten to fifteen years. If he gets a permanent transfer back to the north of Ireland, where he is originally from, he will qualify for fifty percent remission.
Won’t each person be a separate indictment? So he will be punished for each death? IANAL.Point being, it’s negligible really... he dies in prison.
poo at Paul's said:
JuniorD said:
b
d.
One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
I am afraid I don't agree on the last point. Sadly, there will have been HUNDREDS of people complicit in this case that resulted in the deaths of these people and in many cases, the victims families will be included within that number. d.One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
Their deaths are a disgrace and it is correct to prosecute everyone involved, even if they are the victims family members; we should not forget that this was an attempt to illegally enter the UK by a large number of people that travelled a third of the way round the world to do so. That doesn't happen by accident. This is organised, it is lucrative, and there is a demand for it; everyone involved should be held to account.
If you look at the picture of the young lady in the article, the one who's father made the comment, it's clear that she is hardly on the poverty line. She's not some desperate starving soul who needs to escape to save herself from a life of grinding poverty. This is about nothing more than greed on the part of all involved!
Ructions said:
It’s quite rare to get a life sentence for manslaughter, add in the early guilty plea and he’ll possibly be looking at ten to fifteen years. If he gets a permanent transfer back to the north of Ireland, where he is originally from, he will qualify for fifty percent remission.
Lots of aggravating factors too - doing it for enormous amounts of money will count against him. AJL308 said:
I have to agree that the victims families should carry a significant part of the blame in this. They were expecting to benefit from money sent back to them or to follow on in due course. The father of one of the dead said in one of the linked articles "I've lost my loved one and my money". Everyone in every part of the chain carries some of the blame.
If you look at the picture of the young lady in the article, the one who's father made the comment, it's clear that she is hardly on the poverty line. She's not some desperate starving soul who needs to escape to save herself from a life of grinding poverty. This is about nothing more than greed on the part of all involved!
Have you ever lived in Vietnam or SE Asia, and I don’t mean three months in Koh Samui getting stoned?If you look at the picture of the young lady in the article, the one who's father made the comment, it's clear that she is hardly on the poverty line. She's not some desperate starving soul who needs to escape to save herself from a life of grinding poverty. This is about nothing more than greed on the part of all involved!
Poor people dress very well and take care of themselves, even if they live on a shack with no running water. The money was probably borrowed, leant and scrapped together by the bigger family and they probably sold anything of value to be able to have some hope for the future.
Only desperate people pay for illegal entry into the west.
Edited by bongtom on Saturday 29th August 15:57
AJL308 said:
poo at Paul's said:
JuniorD said:
bd.
One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
I am afraid I don't agree on the last point. Sadly, there will have been HUNDREDS of people complicit in this case that resulted in the deaths of these people and in many cases, the victims families will be included within that number. d.One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
Their deaths are a disgrace and it is correct to prosecute everyone involved, even if they are the victims family members; we should not forget that this was an attempt to illegally enter the UK by a large number of people that travelled a third of the way round the world to do so. That doesn't happen by accident. This is organised, it is lucrative, and there is a demand for it; everyone involved should be held to account.
If you look at the picture of the young lady in the article, the one who's father made the comment, it's clear that she is hardly on the poverty line. She's not some desperate starving soul who needs to escape to save herself from a life of grinding poverty. This is about nothing more than greed on the part of all involved!
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
JuniorD said:
Regardless of why and the legalities of their travel to the UK, their traffikers clearly have a duty of care to them.
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Traffikers 'have a duty of care'..........If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Since when ?
Robertj21a said:
JuniorD said:
Regardless of why and the legalities of their travel to the UK, their traffikers clearly have a duty of care to them.
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Traffikers 'have a duty of care'..........If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Since when ?
crankedup said:
Robertj21a said:
JuniorD said:
Regardless of why and the legalities of their travel to the UK, their traffikers clearly have a duty of care to them.
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Traffikers 'have a duty of care'..........If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Since when ?
JuniorD said:
AJL308 said:
poo at Paul's said:
JuniorD said:
bd.
One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
I am afraid I don't agree on the last point. Sadly, there will have been HUNDREDS of people complicit in this case that resulted in the deaths of these people and in many cases, the victims families will be included within that number. d.One life sentence per dead immigrant, to be served consecutively would be about right, plus disposal of all his assets to pay to the victims’ families.
Their deaths are a disgrace and it is correct to prosecute everyone involved, even if they are the victims family members; we should not forget that this was an attempt to illegally enter the UK by a large number of people that travelled a third of the way round the world to do so. That doesn't happen by accident. This is organised, it is lucrative, and there is a demand for it; everyone involved should be held to account.
If you look at the picture of the young lady in the article, the one who's father made the comment, it's clear that she is hardly on the poverty line. She's not some desperate starving soul who needs to escape to save herself from a life of grinding poverty. This is about nothing more than greed on the part of all involved!
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Play dangerous games and you place yourself in danger. Like I say, none of these people seemed to be destitute, they were poor but not starving. They took the risk for personal gain, to earn more money, basically.
JuniorD said:
crankedup said:
Robertj21a said:
JuniorD said:
Regardless of why and the legalities of their travel to the UK, their traffikers clearly have a duty of care to them.
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Traffikers 'have a duty of care'..........If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Since when ?
crankedup said:
JuniorD said:
crankedup said:
Robertj21a said:
JuniorD said:
Regardless of why and the legalities of their travel to the UK, their traffikers clearly have a duty of care to them.
If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Traffikers 'have a duty of care'..........If your child suffocated on a BA flight to somewhere I'd imagine at the very least you'd want the the fare back let alone compensation.
Placing the blame on the victims smacks of, well, victim blaming.
Since when ?
R Mutt said:
Have we identified any other parties involved or were these poor people just waiting at Ho Chi Minh City port for a lift and the lorry was just passing?
There appears to be no record of movements prior to Zeebrugge.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10273076/vietnamese-...There appears to be no record of movements prior to Zeebrugge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52823887
A jury panel has been selected in the trial of four men - two of whom are from Northern Ireland - accused of being part of a people-smuggling ring linked to the deaths of 39 migrants.
The bodies of the Vietnamese nationals were discovered inside a lorry container shortly after it arrived in Purfleet, Essex, on a ferry in the early hours of October 23 last year.
among the men, women and children were 10 teenagers, two of them 15-year-old boys.
An inquest has heard their medical cause of death was asphyxia and hyperthermia - a lack of oxygen and overheating - in an enclosed space.
Eamonn Harrison (23), of Mayobridge, Co Down, Northern Ireland, is alleged to have driven the lorry trailer to the Belgian port of Zeebrugge before it sailed to Purfleet in England.
He is charged with 39 counts of manslaughter and one count of conspiracy to assist unlawful immigration along with Gheorghe Nica, 43, of Langdon Hills, Basildon, Essex.
Valentin Calota (37), of Birmingham, and Christopher Kennedy (24), of Co Armagh, Northern Ireland, are charged with being part of the people-smuggling conspiracy.
The defendants have denied the charges against them.
The trial at the Old Bailey is being heard before Mr Justice Sweeney.
Today, a jury panel was selected and sent away until Wednesday October 7 when prosecutor Bill Emlyn Jones QC is expected to open the case.
Mr Justice Sweeney told the 22 potential jurors: "It is the jury who are the judges of fact in the trial in the Crown Court.
"Jurors reach their decisions based solely on the evidence that they hear in court and what they make of it, so it's extremely important from this moment onwards, even though you know precious little about the case, that you do not talk with anybody about it at all."
The senior judge said it was his first time as a "Covid-related judge" presiding over a trial under social distancing guidelines.
The trial is expected to go on for up to six weeks.
The bodies of the Vietnamese nationals were discovered inside a lorry container shortly after it arrived in Purfleet, Essex, on a ferry in the early hours of October 23 last year.
among the men, women and children were 10 teenagers, two of them 15-year-old boys.
An inquest has heard their medical cause of death was asphyxia and hyperthermia - a lack of oxygen and overheating - in an enclosed space.
Eamonn Harrison (23), of Mayobridge, Co Down, Northern Ireland, is alleged to have driven the lorry trailer to the Belgian port of Zeebrugge before it sailed to Purfleet in England.
He is charged with 39 counts of manslaughter and one count of conspiracy to assist unlawful immigration along with Gheorghe Nica, 43, of Langdon Hills, Basildon, Essex.
Valentin Calota (37), of Birmingham, and Christopher Kennedy (24), of Co Armagh, Northern Ireland, are charged with being part of the people-smuggling conspiracy.
The defendants have denied the charges against them.
The trial at the Old Bailey is being heard before Mr Justice Sweeney.
Today, a jury panel was selected and sent away until Wednesday October 7 when prosecutor Bill Emlyn Jones QC is expected to open the case.
Mr Justice Sweeney told the 22 potential jurors: "It is the jury who are the judges of fact in the trial in the Crown Court.
"Jurors reach their decisions based solely on the evidence that they hear in court and what they make of it, so it's extremely important from this moment onwards, even though you know precious little about the case, that you do not talk with anybody about it at all."
The senior judge said it was his first time as a "Covid-related judge" presiding over a trial under social distancing guidelines.
The trial is expected to go on for up to six weeks.
On an aside, the Wail is frothing about some migrants being stopped from leaving the UK https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8808255...
Richard Littlejohn asks "Why? They were inside a lorry about to board a ferry. What’s hazardous about that?"
It seems these 39 dead migrants are totally forgotten about already.
Richard Littlejohn asks "Why? They were inside a lorry about to board a ferry. What’s hazardous about that?"
It seems these 39 dead migrants are totally forgotten about already.
The lives of 39 Vietnamese people who died in a container lorry have been honoured at a shrine set up in London to mark the first anniversary of the tragedy.
On 23 October last year, the group of migrants suffocated in a container as it was transported from Zeebrugge in Belgium to Purfleet in Essex.
Hackney Chinese Community Services (HCCS) began welcoming visitors to a shrine paying tribute to those who lost their lives at its centre on Ellingfort Road in the east London borough on Friday.
Those paying their respects throughout the morning lit incense, wrote tributes in a book and sat in silence before a wall displaying the names of those who died.
These surrounded a poster displaying the text of poems read at funerals, while a table bore white flowers, candles and offerings of fruit, sweets and biscuits.
Jabez Lam, 64, the HCCS centre manager, said many of its members came from both Chinese and Vietnamese communities.
Local elders were consulted on how best to ensure the shrine, which was due to stay open until 5pm, honours Vietnamese traditions.
Mr Lam said its aim was to "share the experiences, the common grief and the hardships of migrant communities".
He described the 39 Vietnamese people as "victims of globalisation" and drew parallels to previous migrant tragedies.
Mr Lam explained he acted as a middle man between the Chinese community and police after 58 bodies were found in a sealed, airless container at Dover port on June 18 2000.
He also highlighted the 2004 tragedy in which 23 Chinese workers drowned at Morecambe Bay after being sent to gather shellfish.
"All the victims are from similar backgrounds, that they were mainly from rural areas where their livelihood was destroyed by the so-called modern industrialisation," Mr Lam said.
"Where they were forced to move away and make a living."
He said border control rules and a "hostile environment" were "creating a profitable environment for [the] trafficking business".
Mr Lam claimed a focus on the criminality of traffickers "totally lost the point", arguing government policy should look at the "route problem" behind migrant tragedies.
He said: "In the last two or three decades the so-called globalisation has brought the world closer, bringing capital to where there's cheap labour and destroying the environment of the local ecosystem and local livelihood."
But he said border controls were preventing migrants fulfilling opportunities in other labour markets.
"All of these things together are pushing these people into the hands of the only route to come in which is organised crime," Mr Lam said.
"We wish the Government would listen and be humane and change the system not to criminalise these people but unfortunately that hasn't happened and it's only got worse.
"Unless there is a change in border control and a change in the hostile environment this kind of tragedy will continue to happen."
One visitor to the shrine on Friday, 39-year-old Gwyn Binyon, who works in Hackney, said she had come to the centre for the first time to pay her respects.
She said: "I feel like people in general haven't really considered the people who died as individual beings with full lives who just through the accident of their birth found themselves in situations where it was impossible to continue living in those conditions."
The 39 Vietnamese people who died were: Dinh Dinh Binh, 15, Nguyen Minh Quang, 20, Nguyen Huy Phong, 35, Le Van Ha, 30, Nguyen Van Hiep, 24, Bui Phan Thang, 37, Nguyen Van Hung, 33, Nguyen Huy Hung, 15, Nguyen Tien Dung, 33, Pham Thi Tra My, 26, Tran Khanh Tho, 18, Nguyen Van Nhan, 33, Vo Ngoc Nam, 28, Vo Van Linh, 25, Nguyen Ba Vu Hung, 34, Vo Nhan Du, 19, Tran Hai Loc, 35, Tran Manh Hung, 37, Nguyen Thi Van, 35, Bui Thi Nhung, 19, Hoang Van Tiep, 18, Tran Thi Ngoc, 19, Phan Thi Thanh, 41, Tran Thi Tho, 21, Duong Minh Tuan, 27, Pham Thi Ngoc Oanh, 28, Tran Thi Mai Nhung, 18, Le Trong Thanh, 44, Nguyen Ngoc Ha, 32, Hoang Van Hoi, 24, Tran Ngoc Hieu, 17, Cao Tien Dung, 37, Dinh Dinh Thai Quyen, 18, Dong Huu Tuyen, 22, Nguyen Dinh Luong, 20, Cao Huy Thanh, 37, Nguyen Trong Thai, 26, Nguyen Tho Tuan, 25, and Nguyen Dinh Tu, 26.
On 23 October last year, the group of migrants suffocated in a container as it was transported from Zeebrugge in Belgium to Purfleet in Essex.
Hackney Chinese Community Services (HCCS) began welcoming visitors to a shrine paying tribute to those who lost their lives at its centre on Ellingfort Road in the east London borough on Friday.
Those paying their respects throughout the morning lit incense, wrote tributes in a book and sat in silence before a wall displaying the names of those who died.
These surrounded a poster displaying the text of poems read at funerals, while a table bore white flowers, candles and offerings of fruit, sweets and biscuits.
Jabez Lam, 64, the HCCS centre manager, said many of its members came from both Chinese and Vietnamese communities.
Local elders were consulted on how best to ensure the shrine, which was due to stay open until 5pm, honours Vietnamese traditions.
Mr Lam said its aim was to "share the experiences, the common grief and the hardships of migrant communities".
He described the 39 Vietnamese people as "victims of globalisation" and drew parallels to previous migrant tragedies.
Mr Lam explained he acted as a middle man between the Chinese community and police after 58 bodies were found in a sealed, airless container at Dover port on June 18 2000.
He also highlighted the 2004 tragedy in which 23 Chinese workers drowned at Morecambe Bay after being sent to gather shellfish.
"All the victims are from similar backgrounds, that they were mainly from rural areas where their livelihood was destroyed by the so-called modern industrialisation," Mr Lam said.
"Where they were forced to move away and make a living."
He said border control rules and a "hostile environment" were "creating a profitable environment for [the] trafficking business".
Mr Lam claimed a focus on the criminality of traffickers "totally lost the point", arguing government policy should look at the "route problem" behind migrant tragedies.
He said: "In the last two or three decades the so-called globalisation has brought the world closer, bringing capital to where there's cheap labour and destroying the environment of the local ecosystem and local livelihood."
But he said border controls were preventing migrants fulfilling opportunities in other labour markets.
"All of these things together are pushing these people into the hands of the only route to come in which is organised crime," Mr Lam said.
"We wish the Government would listen and be humane and change the system not to criminalise these people but unfortunately that hasn't happened and it's only got worse.
"Unless there is a change in border control and a change in the hostile environment this kind of tragedy will continue to happen."
One visitor to the shrine on Friday, 39-year-old Gwyn Binyon, who works in Hackney, said she had come to the centre for the first time to pay her respects.
She said: "I feel like people in general haven't really considered the people who died as individual beings with full lives who just through the accident of their birth found themselves in situations where it was impossible to continue living in those conditions."
The 39 Vietnamese people who died were: Dinh Dinh Binh, 15, Nguyen Minh Quang, 20, Nguyen Huy Phong, 35, Le Van Ha, 30, Nguyen Van Hiep, 24, Bui Phan Thang, 37, Nguyen Van Hung, 33, Nguyen Huy Hung, 15, Nguyen Tien Dung, 33, Pham Thi Tra My, 26, Tran Khanh Tho, 18, Nguyen Van Nhan, 33, Vo Ngoc Nam, 28, Vo Van Linh, 25, Nguyen Ba Vu Hung, 34, Vo Nhan Du, 19, Tran Hai Loc, 35, Tran Manh Hung, 37, Nguyen Thi Van, 35, Bui Thi Nhung, 19, Hoang Van Tiep, 18, Tran Thi Ngoc, 19, Phan Thi Thanh, 41, Tran Thi Tho, 21, Duong Minh Tuan, 27, Pham Thi Ngoc Oanh, 28, Tran Thi Mai Nhung, 18, Le Trong Thanh, 44, Nguyen Ngoc Ha, 32, Hoang Van Hoi, 24, Tran Ngoc Hieu, 17, Cao Tien Dung, 37, Dinh Dinh Thai Quyen, 18, Dong Huu Tuyen, 22, Nguyen Dinh Luong, 20, Cao Huy Thanh, 37, Nguyen Trong Thai, 26, Nguyen Tho Tuan, 25, and Nguyen Dinh Tu, 26.
heebeegeetee said:
On an aside, the Wail is frothing about some migrants being stopped from leaving the UK https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8808255...
Richard Littlejohn asks "Why? They were inside a lorry about to board a ferry. What’s hazardous about that?"
It seems these 39 dead migrants are totally forgotten about already.
Nobody seems to give a damn about these people. I don’t think the authorities want to acknowledge it as apart from everything else it shows how porous the wonderful border they’ve promised actually is. Richard Littlejohn asks "Why? They were inside a lorry about to board a ferry. What’s hazardous about that?"
It seems these 39 dead migrants are totally forgotten about already.
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