Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)
Discussion
An arresting situation, again. It's not just here that charges and sentences need to become more effective to deter repeat offending. Protesting isn't law-breaking, who knew.
https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/jane-fonda-ted-d...
Somebody manages to whine about single use plasticuffs.
https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/jane-fonda-ted-d...
Somebody manages to whine about single use plasticuffs.
Potential good news continues on the climate politics front, this from Euractiv.
Global Climate Laws Threatened By Rise In Investor Lawsuits
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news...
Note misuse of the word 'protection' as though politicians can protect people from natural events by influencing those natural events via taxes and lifestyle controls.
Good to see vol 6 of this thread, important as it is topic-wise, though it could be vol 2 without the pro-agw trolling posts
Global Climate Laws Threatened By Rise In Investor Lawsuits
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news...
Note misuse of the word 'protection' as though politicians can protect people from natural events by influencing those natural events via taxes and lifestyle controls.
Good to see vol 6 of this thread, important as it is topic-wise, though it could be vol 2 without the pro-agw trolling posts
turbobloke said:
kerplunk said:
voyds9 said:
So what is the correct amount of CO2 that we are aiming for.
One that doesn't change massively.voyds9 said:
With this runaway heating effect why did we enter an ice age at the end of the ordovician period when the CO2 level nearly 4500ppm
This sceptic talking point is based on CO2 data with a resolution of 10 million years and a late Ordivician ice age that lasted half a million years. Can you see the problem?It looks like somebody has been over to SkSc for some selective/disputed reading. According to research using spatio-temporal distribution of continental glacial deposits and glaciomarine sediments (supported by isotope studies from other researchers) the late ordovician ice age began -465 million years (ago) peaked -440 million years and had terminated -420 million years. See Poussart et al who also show that it's possible to maintain a permanent snow cover under 10x current CO2 levels, contemporary orbital parameters, a 4.5% reduction in solar luminosity and a length of day ~ 21.5 hours as per conditions at the time.
The half a million year cherry pick within that 45 million year timescale is a bit too ripe but it lends itself nicely to resolution obfuscation. It's not the only evidence of course. Other research looks superficially favourable for a shorter tax gas holiday e.g. Quinton et al which claims a reduction in carbon dioxide levels at -450 million years...only 15 million years too late for causation but in keeping with carbon dioxide following temperature changes not causing them. Resolution revolution
Our politicians are well up on this, maybe it's in Hansard somewhere.
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
kerplunk said:
voyds9 said:
So what is the correct amount of CO2 that we are aiming for.
One that doesn't change massively.voyds9 said:
With this runaway heating effect why did we enter an ice age at the end of the ordovician period when the CO2 level nearly 4500ppm
This sceptic talking point is based on CO2 data with a resolution of 10 million years and a late Ordivician ice age that lasted half a million years. Can you see the problem?It looks like somebody has been over to SkSc for some selective/disputed reading. According to research using spatio-temporal distribution of continental glacial deposits and glaciomarine sediments (supported by isotope studies from other researchers) the late ordovician ice age began -465 million years (ago) peaked -440 million years and had terminated -420 million years. See Poussart et al who also show that it's possible to maintain a permanent snow cover under 10x current CO2 levels, contemporary orbital parameters, a 4.5% reduction in solar luminosity and a length of day ~ 21.5 hours as per conditions at the time.
The half a million year cherry pick within that 45 million year timescale is a bit too ripe but it lends itself nicely to resolution obfuscation. It's not the only evidence of course. Other research looks superficially favourable for a shorter tax gas holiday e.g. Quinton et al which claims a reduction in carbon dioxide levels at -450 million years...only 15 million years too late for causation but in keeping with carbon dioxide following temperature changes not causing them. Resolution revolution
Our politicians are well up on this, maybe it's in Hansard somewhere.
Uncertainties can be managed in every sense of the word. As per the recent attrition loop on feedbacks with methane to go. The Team suddenly found additional uncertainty in their gigo modelling so that when new data had the models parting company with reality, remarkably this new uncertainty which was greater than previously thought, this additional uncertainty which they had hitherto failed to spot somehow, coincided (fate!) with a need to stretch the equivalent of error bars (model gigo isn't empirical data) to retain threadbare overlap with actual empirical data. Less certainty in gigo managed to give more certainty in faith, Brian Rix would have been proud. These days it's back to 'mind the gap'.
Fewer but more accurate volumes without all the diddled data to report on, as a result of politicised 'science'.
https://www.facebook.com/CraigKellyMP/photos/a.117...
Here's one of the latest ^ it's BoM Australia, an old friend in this regard, this time caught out by a member of their federal House of Representatives (Craig Kelly) no less who spotted the nation’s Bureau of Meteorology altering graphs showing the number of very hot days. This latest revisionism obscured the fact that 1952 had more very hot days than recent years, and by adding a "newly discovered” ho ho ho hot day in 2011 this made it appear that there wasn't a record low number in 2011 - 'and still they believe'.
https://www.facebook.com/CraigKellyMP/photos/a.117...
Here's one of the latest ^ it's BoM Australia, an old friend in this regard, this time caught out by a member of their federal House of Representatives (Craig Kelly) no less who spotted the nation’s Bureau of Meteorology altering graphs showing the number of very hot days. This latest revisionism obscured the fact that 1952 had more very hot days than recent years, and by adding a "newly discovered” ho ho ho hot day in 2011 this made it appear that there wasn't a record low number in 2011 - 'and still they believe'.
Kelly is a controversial ultra-right political figure so it's no surprise you have his musings on tap.
I quote:
Kelly, who was a furniture salesman before he entered parliament, also cited a study that said Tuvalu was growing not sinking. The peer-reviewed study shows the island’s land mass has grown owing to sedimention and reef growth, but Kelly ignored part of the same study that said climate change remained the single biggest threat to the low-lying Pacific islands and their future.
In a nutshell is like more information on the background to your post on order to check for context, accuracy etc before taking it as anywhere near honest.
I quote:
Kelly, who was a furniture salesman before he entered parliament, also cited a study that said Tuvalu was growing not sinking. The peer-reviewed study shows the island’s land mass has grown owing to sedimention and reef growth, but Kelly ignored part of the same study that said climate change remained the single biggest threat to the low-lying Pacific islands and their future.
In a nutshell is like more information on the background to your post on order to check for context, accuracy etc before taking it as anywhere near honest.
Gadgetmac said:
Kelly is a controversial ultra-right political figure so it's no surprise you have his musings on tap.
Not on tap but I get news feeds which even you might manage if you try.Returning to relevance, are you saying that left wingers wouldn't report on climate data diddling?
Your comment makes no difference at all to what happened with the data.
Another shoot-the-messenger ad hom fallacy bites the dust.
A bit of light humour for a Sunday morning,
Everywhere is warming faster than the global average.
https://youtu.be/S-CxkCtSnLU
Everywhere is warming faster than the global average.
https://youtu.be/S-CxkCtSnLU
PRTVR said:
A bit of light humour for a Sunday morning,
Everywhere is warming faster than the global average.
https://youtu.be/S-CxkCtSnLU
Should run this on the Beeb. Never happen though.Everywhere is warming faster than the global average.
https://youtu.be/S-CxkCtSnLU
turbobloke said:
Gadgetmac said:
Kelly is a controversial ultra-right political figure so it's no surprise you have his musings on tap.
Not on tap but I get news feeds which even you might manage if you try.Returning to relevance, are you saying that left wingers wouldn't report on climate data diddling?
Your comment makes no difference at all to what happened with the data.
Another shoot-the-messenger ad hom fallacy bites the dust.
Don't trust the IPCC mob, believe Oreskes and Stern instead (etc)
Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
turbobloke said:
Don't trust the IPCC mob, believe Oreskes and Stern instead (etc)
Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
So climate change really is happening and might even be worse than previously suggested by scientists? Thanks for showing us that TB. Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
Randy Winkman said:
turbobloke said:
Don't trust the IPCC mob, believe Oreskes and Stern instead (etc)
Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
So climate change really is happening and might even be worse than previously suggested by scientists? Thanks for showing us that TB. Potayto. Potarto. Same taste.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/10/2...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff