Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)

[Helicopter123]

dickymint said:

Helicopter123 said:

Etypephil said:

Helicopter123 said:

Etypephil said:

Helicopter123 said:

Venice floods: Climate change behind highest tide in 50 years, says mayor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50401308

You have to wonder what it will take for some to admit the planet is at, or very near, the tipping point?

Not to worry, Garbage Greta is sailing to Europe with a detailed explanation of how it’s our fault that Venice continues to sink just as it has been doing since construction day # 1.

Greta is raising awareness generally, which is a good thing I'm sure you will agree.

All Greta is doing is spreading false alarm, oh, and making her family yet more £millions.
Good for her, not for humanity though.

Anything that focuses minds on the global climate emergency is surely a good thing?

Every time you open your garage door and see your current fleet, does that focus your mind on "the global climate emergency"?

I think we are all aware of the need to do our bit.

[turbobloke]

[jshell]

Helicopter123 said:

dickymint said:

Helicopter123 said:

Etypephil said:

Helicopter123 said:

Etypephil said:

Helicopter123 said:

Venice floods: Climate change behind highest tide in 50 years, says mayor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50401308

You have to wonder what it will take for some to admit the planet is at, or very near, the tipping point?

Not to worry, Garbage Greta is sailing to Europe with a detailed explanation of how it’s our fault that Venice continues to sink just as it has been doing since construction day # 1.

Greta is raising awareness generally, which is a good thing I'm sure you will agree.

All Greta is doing is spreading false alarm, oh, and making her family yet more £millions.
Good for her, not for humanity though.

Anything that focuses minds on the global climate emergency is surely a good thing?

Every time you open your garage door and see your current fleet, does that focus your mind on "the global climate emergency"?

I think we are all aware of the need to do our bit.

Obvious P-taker is now obvious...

[jshell]

turbobloke said:

The climate models which are used to gull politicians and thus divert policy got a reprieve with the strong 2015/2016 El Nino, as the resulting natural warming could be portrayed as agw; how are they doing now? With the El Nino long dissipated, as badly as before. PDF at the link.

https://www.rossmckitrick.com/uploads/4/8/0/8/4808...

Amen to that. Others behave like politicians, putting sixth-form politics in a science paper.

If true, that's an interesting short paper!!

[Kawasicki]

PRTVR said:

Wayoftheflower said:

PRTVR said:

Wayoftheflower said:

Here

and Here-

and Here

and Here

Did you read the links you posted ?
The first "and here" says Although these trends are consistent with projected impacts of climate change on FFDI, this study cannot separate the influence of climate change, if any, with that of natural variability.

.

Highlighted for your convenience

Such an enjoyable discussion. Thanks chaps.

[kerplunk]

turbobloke said:

The climate models which are used to gull politicians and thus divert policy got a reprieve with the strong 2015/2016 El Nino, as the resulting natural warming could be portrayed as agw; how are they doing now? With the El Nino long dissipated, as badly as before. PDF at the link.

https://www.rossmckitrick.com/uploads/4/8/0/8/4808...

Dr Hans von Storch said:

Unfortunately, some scientists behave like preachers, delivering sermons to people.

Amen to that. Others behave like politicians, putting sixth-form politics in a science paper.

November 11th seems an odd time of year to issue a model-obs update - most people do them early in the year when the annual averages come out.

Far be it for me to suggest he's seen how the 2019 data is panning out and wanted a down-tick at the end, not an up-tick.

[LongQ]

stew-STR160 said:

Wayoftheflower said:

But it is an absolute fact that the fire season is longer and more extreme in Australia due to climate change.

Could you show me where this is stated?

Me to.

FWIW I was in Aus in 2011 (not so long ago and after a good many years of challenging fires) and drove through the Blue Mountains from Sydney to Bathurst and back at around this time of year (9th or 10th November iirc). The week before we had travelled down the East Coast and seen signs of the events a few years previously as recovery was still in progress.

To claim that something new is happening is something of a stretch.

However to make political capital out of such events is human nature.

Which game is being played here?

[Gadgetmac]

turbobloke said:

It's official, agw has had its chips

That's about the eleventy-billionth time you've said that and every time you do it seems to get further and further from the truth.

Perhaps there's a correlation between you announcing it and it becoming less and less true. Some kind of inversely proportionate relationship looks most likely.

I'll knock out a paper in later this morning and get it off to the GWPF for peer review.

[anonymous-user]

Gadgetmac said:

turbobloke said:

It's official, agw has had its chips

That's about the eleventy-billionth time you've said that and every time you do it seems to get further and further from the truth.

Perhaps there's a correlation between you announcing it and it becoming less and less true. Some kind of inversely proportionate relationship looks most likely.

I'll knock out a paper in later this morning and get it off to the GWPF for peer review.

so true.

He keeps posting about “the tide turning” and governments moving away from commitments but then has to post contradictory propaganda about government being misled by scientists and trying to spread liberal agendas when governments like his own in the U.K. keep extending and increasing commitments.

Oddly even he recently (and most of his followers) now agrees AGW is real, they’re just arguing about the extent of it.

It’s very similar to how the tobacco industry reacted when eventually science won and the smoking bans and advertising bans came in. Instead of focusing on health or facts they moved onto focusing on freedom of choice and intrusive government control or the knock on loss in tax revenue or pubs closing. Showing really that it’s nothing about science or facts, it’s all about the role of government and institutions and organisations.

[Etypephil]

El stovey said:

so true.

He keeps posting about “the tide turning” and governments moving away from commitments but then has to post contradictory propaganda about government being misled by scientists and trying to spread liberal agendas when governments like his own in the U.K. keep extending and increasing commitments.

Oddly even he recently (and most of his followers) now agrees AGW is real, they’re just arguing about the extent of it.

It’s very similar to how the tobacco industry reacted when eventually science won and the smoking bans and advertising bans came in. Instead of focusing on health or facts they moved onto focusing on freedom of choice and intrusive government control or the knock on loss in tax revenue or pubs closing. Showing really that it’s nothing about science or facts, it’s all about the role of government and institutions and organisations.

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

[turbobloke]

Chips. Paper on potatoes, and CO2. Join the dots, relevant humourless agw people.

Meanwhile, clueless Dems trot out climatewang stateside: Prof Pielke Jr at Forbes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/11/1...

"The US has not yet begun its journey towards net-zero carbon dioxide, whether by 2050 or any other year. None of the proposals put forward by Democratic candidates for president are plausible."

"The evidence indicates that none of the increase in renewables deployment has actually replaced any fossil fuel consumption. US fossil fuel consumption has continued to increase."

Not even begun the journey? It's an emergency! How dare they! Stock the bunker people, first brexit then the sky falls in

[anonymous-user]

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

[Etypephil]

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

[turbobloke]

California and 'not SUV'.

• highly unlikely that a few tenths of a degree rise in average temperatures in California over the last few decades has made fires more destructive (previous years worse)

• while many cite human-caused climate change, the evidence points to forest management issues as far more important

• fire suppression, declining forest harvests, and insect damage appear to be the main causes of increased fire destruction

• the Little Hoover Commission report of 2018...a century of forest fire suppression in California produced 'disastrous results' ...crowded forests choked with tinder-dry brush

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/...

[Gadgetmac]

Etypephil said:

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

That's the very definition of a "belief".

[PRTVR]

Gadgetmac said:

Etypephil said:

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

That's the very definition of a "belief".

How? Surely the belief is with the people who believe we can change things instead of it being natural ?

[anonymous-user]

Gadgetmac said:

Etypephil said:

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

That's the very definition of a "belief".

Plus a conspiracy theory.

[turbobloke]

We're saved. It looks as though Greta will make it to the COP in time, courtesy of a luxury yacht, but surely it can't have two diesel engines? Must be a reporting error.

[Etypephil]

Gadgetmac said:

Etypephil said:

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

That's the very definition of a "belief".

Supported by indisputable facts.

[Etypephil]

El stovey said:

Gadgetmac said:

Etypephil said:

El stovey said:

Etypephil said:

Gretianity;- the promised false religion.

You talk about false religion and others being “AGW sheep” and being believers.

What exactly do you think regarding AGW?

Nothing; it’s a figment of your imagination.
The climate is changing, has always changed, and will continue to do so. Humans are too insignificant to have measurable effect. We will have to adapt to whatever changes occur, and stop being so arrogant as to believe that we can control the climate in any way.

That's the very definition of a "belief".

Plus a conspiracy theory.

What? You must be seeing different words from those which I typed.