Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)

[turbobloke]

Somebody who was vilified for pointing out the fallacies of agw 10 years ago as spoken out again and is bound to be vilified once more, such is the level of debate around climate fairytales.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/uk-world/1006...

Spot the following:
-early journalist misuse of the word denier
-journalist lack of appreciation of three fallacies (argumentum ad populum/verecundiam and the ad hom fallacy)
-initial association of a mere change in atmospheric composition with climate change (requires the reader to mislead themselves after being relentlessly propagandised to do so)
-eventual opportunities for JB to make salient points (e.g. climate always changes, greater importance of water vapour etc)

[Gadgetmac]

Ex TV presenter Johnny Ball?

No, really, Johnny Ball?

Does David Icke agree with him too?

[turbobloke]

Was that another ad hom fallacy as predicted without using computer models? Dreck galore from agw supporters today, lucky thread.

Moving on to more rational discourse above primary school playground level...

The content of this open letter (below) are spot on both in context and in terms of opposition to agw-climate-based political policy foolishness. The text is what's important "opposition based on emotion and dogma contradicted by data must be stopped" the signatories are incidental. Spot on enunciation is spot on. Here's a snip.

“WE CALL UPON GREENPEACE to cease and desist in its campaign against Golden Rice specifically, and crops and foods improved through biotechnology in general; WE CALL UPON GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD to reject Greenpeace’s campaign against Golden Rice specifically, and crops and foods improved through biotechnology in general; and to do everything in their power to oppose Greenpeace’s actions and accelerate the access of farmers to all the tools of modern biology, especially seeds improved through biotechnology. Opposition based on emotion and dogma contradicted by data must be stopped. How many poor people in the world must die before we consider this a “crime against humanity?”
Nobel Laureates Open Letter Supporting Precision Agriculture

https://www.supportprecisionagriculture.org/nobel-...

[Gadgetmac]

He ranted at a school presentation on Maths he was giving causing patents to walk out with their children. It was described as his Icke moment by one onlooker.

This about sums up your source material to a tee.

[turbobloke]

Another example of climate-related policy retardedness and another chance to extend the irrelevant agw-based ad hom shoot-the-messenger fallacyfest.

https://www.thegwpf.com/blackouts-californias-elec...

Thank goodness wildfires overall are decreasing according to the data (Doerr and Santin 2016) including those caused by carelessness - cigarettes, broken glass - or arson, with global burned area decreasing over recent decades.

[Gadgetmac]

Esceptico....you can tick your GWPF box now as well

[Electro1980]

turbobloke said:

Somebody who was vilified for pointing out the fallacies of agw 10 years ago as spoken out again and is bound to be vilified once more, such is the level of debate around climate fairytales.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/uk-world/1006...

Spot the following:
-early journalist misuse of the word denier
-journalist lack of appreciation of three fallacies (argumentum ad populum/verecundiam and the ad hom fallacy)
-initial association of a mere change in atmospheric composition with climate change (requires the reader to mislead themselves after being relentlessly propagandised to do so)
-eventual opportunities for JB to make salient points (e.g. climate always changes, greater importance of water vapour etc)

Seriously? You think that someone who’s highest qualification on the subject is o-level geography holds a valid viewpoint on arguments that have been disproven repeatedly? His opinion on the matter is not equal to that of an academic working in the field...

[Esceptico]

Gadgetmac said:

Esceptico....you can tick your GWPF box now as well

Thanks! I have to admit to not being able to keep up with the word salad spewing out from Turbo today. This clip came to mind:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tAvkg00xy9g

[Randy Winkman]

I pointed out a few weeks ago that a programme on the anti-vaccination movement reminded me a bit of this issue. I saw another one the other night called "Who are you calling fat?". Things like "the science is bogus" and "health doesn't exist".

[kerplunk]

turbobloke said:

Somebody who was vilified for pointing out the fallacies of agw 10 years ago as spoken out again and is bound to be vilified once more, such is the level of debate around climate fairytales.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/uk-world/1006...

Spot the following:
-early journalist misuse of the word denier
-journalist lack of appreciation of three fallacies (argumentum ad populum/verecundiam and the ad hom fallacy)
-initial association of a mere change in atmospheric composition with climate change (requires the reader to mislead themselves after being relentlessly propagandised to do so)
-eventual opportunities for JB to make salient points (e.g. climate always changes, greater importance of water vapour etc)

trying to work out if this reply to the article is a poe:


"Designer

31,000 scientists and 9,000 with PHDs wrote to president Obama to deny the correlation between man made CO2 and global warming. 500 scientists wrote to the United Nations this year also to protests against this assertion, yet our biased media refuses to report it. Also, since when was scientific outcome determined by consensus ?"

[turbobloke]

Randy Winkman said:

I pointed out a few weeks ago that a programme on the anti-vaccination movement reminded me a bit of this issue. I saw another one the other night called "Who are you calling fat?". Things like "the science is bogus" and "health doesn't exist".

As always each case needs to be treated on its merits and demerits. Lack of reproducibility is one form of useful benchmarking, so is the basic issue of flawed methodology as per feeding lots of cholesterol to a small herbivorous mammal with no meat in its natural diet then extrapolating the health impacts to humans. What a lot of nonsense that one generated.

More recently the bacon-is-OK research provided another example. Often the infamous 'epidemiological fallacy' is used, to boost publication counts and grab headlines, as per the ridiculous claims for outdoor air health impacts when indoor air is many times more polluted (average 10x more from UKBRE & IAQUK, and up to 100x more polluted) and we spend 90% of our time indoors. It's known that nobody supposedily harmed or killed in these outdoor air fallacyfests has their individual pollution exposure level measured at any time including time of death. Journalists seem to lose whatever intellectual horsepower they may once have possessed when dealing with such carp. Sure let's reduce pollution with indoor air a priority and at the same time cut the bullshine fallacy.

These hacks may not have any scientific background and sometimes scientific / mathematical knowledge and understanding are needed to see through the dreck, at other times it's obvious to anyone with an ounce of nous and a gramme of independent thought.

Climate politics: an example follows of the detailed evidence-based response to the exposure of agw as guff. It's a Pennsylvania Climate Hearing where former Senator Inhofe team member Marc Morano is apparently a racist, a holocaust denier, gazes on ignorant (i.e. disruptive) activists in the audience wearing tin foil hats & is generally heckled - as a Democrat legislator walks out annoyed that reality is getting a hearing. Two excerpts follow.

https://youtu.be/VcY8x28XRHg

https://youtu.be/X4xVzeq6w4E

Such evidence-based responses to testimony can only speak well for the ease with which agw can be defended using empirical data and related evidence

[turbobloke]

kerplunk said:

trying to work out if this reply to the article is a poe

POE Power Over Ethernet
POE Path of Exile (gaming)
POE Phase of Education
POE Piece of Eden
POE Proof of Employment
POE Point of Entry
POE Portfolio of Evidence
POE Peace On Earth
POE Proof of Execution
POE Point of Equilibrium
POE Projekt Ostry Emade (Polish: Rough Draft Emade)
POE Propagation of Error (statistical software)
POE Property of Equality (mathematics)
POE Period of Enrollment (financial aid)
POE Ports of Entry
POE Point of Exit
POE Point of Existence (game)
POE Public Outreach and Education (various locations)
POE Portal of Evil (website)
POE Paid Owned Earned Media (marketing)
POE Precio de Oportunidad de la Energía (Spanish: Price Energy Opportunity)
POE Persistent Object Environment
POE Proof of Entitlement
POE Place of Employment
POE Process of Elimination
POE Panel of Experts
POE Port Of Embarkation
POE Post Occupancy Evaluation (now Facility Performance Evaluation)
POE Perl Object Environment
POE Problem of Evil (theology)
POE Principles of Engineering
POE Polyolester (type of oil for A/C)
POE Physician Order Entry
POE Pipe Organ Encounter
POE Provider Outreach and Education Advisory Group (US Medicare)
POE Point of Embarkation
POE Purity of Essence (Dr. Strangelove)
POE Polyolefin Elastomer (polymer)
POE Proofs of Entitlement (IBM)
POE Publicly Owned Enterprise (Kosovo)
POE Piece of Eight (old English currency)
POE Parallel Operating Environment (IBM)
POE Point of Exposure
POE Primary Operating Environment (Australia)
POE Program Office Estimate
POE Proactive Office Encounter
POE Point Operating Equipment (railway engineering)
POE Projected Operational Environment
POE Plan of Exploration
POE Probability of Excedence
POE point of ending
POE Post Office Express
POE Pilot Operational Equipment (US NASA)
POE Planet Ouest Evasion (French club)
POE Predict, Observe and Explain (science education)
POE Privately Owned Enterprise
POE Proof of Export
POE Point of Essence
POE Priority of Effort
POE Posture of Engagement
POE Precise Orbit Ephemerides
POE Program of Execution
POE Personally Owned Equipment (various organizations)
POE protubérance occipitale externe
POE Pay Option Election
POE Process Overall Efficiency (engineering)
POE Projected Operating Employment (Navy Association with ROC)
POE Professional Office Enterprises
POE Proposed/Projected Operational Environment
POE Proof of Enabler

[anonymous-user]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law?wprov=sf...

[turbobloke]

If only it wasn't a non-source (wiki) but tipped off - and thanks for that - it turns out that Poe's law relates to internet discussions particularly regarding religion or politics; both of those points and the absence of any science mention clearly make the law applicable to agw discussions online. Regarding the article, there's nothing po(e)-faced about the weaponising of children and anxiety levels of other young people thanks to baseless hysteria from adults who have a hidden motive and should know better in any case.

[Gadgetmac]

Gadgetmac said:

Esceptico....you can tick your GWPF box now as well

Another one just leapt into the keep-net.

Tick the Exxon-funds receiving non-climate scientist Marc Moreno box.

[turbobloke]

Gadgetmac said:

Gadgetmac said:

Esceptico....you can tick your GWPF box now as well

Another one just leapt into the keep-net.

Tick the Exxon-funds receiving non-climate scientist Marc Moreno box.

That lack of reasoning and substance offers nothing at all to either GWPF or Morano (not Moreno, duh).

This is a climate politics thread and both posts related to climate politics not least as GWPF is headed by a Labour Peer and is a cross-Party organisation, while Morano is ex-Inhofe.

Who could possibly think a rising tide of vacuous tripe from agw support central does anything except reveal the lack of any substantive response; the pro-agw cupboard is bare.

Great stuff for fallacy bingo, otherwise pointless and juvenile. Keep up the good work!

Back on-topic with a political hot potato baking in a climate of control freakery: climate activists aka lifestyle totalitarians are after you (and Netflix) if you stream videos. Go for a 4 mile drive instead

https://nypost.com/2019/10/28/why-climate-change-a...

[turbobloke]

Chile Cancels Annual Carbonfest For Climate Activists

The BBC's version is at the link below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-502...

[turbobloke]

A new book is available as a stocking filler, which includes within its scope the subject of...climate politics. Hurrah!

Tasters on the 'Scientocracy' theme follow, based on its content - why not buy the book and check it out

-the science aristocracy is feeding off its former reputation as honest brokers of the natural world
-nowadays they can resemble hair-shirted bureaucrats who don't hesitate to fake science
-the public, politicians and journalists are mostly non-scientists easily fooled into believing fake science
-research is driven by grant-greed allied to socialist dreams of Left-field administrators
-independent scientists are taking apart the global warming scam but do not get public funds
-other funding magnets play on LNT (linear no threshold) misapplications which go unchecked
-therefore to-date, mostly but not wholly, the scientocracy prevails in political and media circles

A good read for the festive season and with 1 reviewer, 2 editors plus 11 author-messengers to shoot, it's odds-on as a metoo fallacy bingo magnet for some

Various sources are available of which this (below) is one.

https://www.amazon.com/Scientocracy-Tangled-Public...

And finally an alternative choice with a stable connection to the above.

[jshell]

turbobloke said:

Who could possibly think a rising tide of vacuous tripe from agw support central does anything except reveal the lack of any substantive response; the pro-agw cupboard is bare.

That does seem to reflect the current climate...

[PRTVR]

Randy Winkman said:

I pointed out a few weeks ago that a programme on the anti-vaccination movement reminded me a bit of this issue. I saw another one the other night called "Who are you calling fat?". Things like "the science is bogus" and "health doesn't exist".

You saw another one...... I am sorry to tell you you did nothing of the kind, one is proven with science, I didn't see the program, but
with the advert for the program did not one of the people say that fat people were a drain on NHS resources ?
The other is a theory that only works in a computer program.
Colorado snow and possibly the coldest temperature on record.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/10/29/denver-weath...