Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
Literally fantastic targets. Is this an example of a mass delusion.
Putting aside thoughts on AGW/CAGW, how on earth do these CO2 reduction targets make any sense? Or is the idea that you set the target for 2030, knowing full well it will take until about 2185 for the targets to be met? The politicians are either stupid or lying, that’s the choice.
You set the target to 2030 in the knowledge that your maximum Presidential term ends in 2029.Putting aside thoughts on AGW/CAGW, how on earth do these CO2 reduction targets make any sense? Or is the idea that you set the target for 2030, knowing full well it will take until about 2185 for the targets to be met? The politicians are either stupid or lying, that’s the choice.
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Yeah but that's not news to me, but it seemed China making a not insignificant effort to deploy renewables was news to you.
Yes, do you know that when I did the Yangtze River cruise in 2019 culminating in spending the day at the Three Gorges hydro electric dam, bigggest the world I believe until they build an even bigger one in Tibet, I completely missed the fact that it didn't run on coal. Same as I also missed the air pollution warnings when in Shanghai and Bejiing. Theres a reason the Chinese wore masks before Covid and it wasn't to be polite to others. It was the deathly smog caused by all the renewables they were using.
kerplunk said:
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Yeah but that's not news to me, but it seemed China making a not insignificant effort to deploy renewables was news to you.
Yes, do you know that when I did the Yangtze River cruise in 2019 culminating in spending the day at the Three Gorges hydro electric dam, bigggest the world I believe until they build an even bigger one in Tibet, I completely missed the fact that it didn't run on coal. Same as I also missed the air pollution warnings when in Shanghai and Bejiing. Theres a reason the Chinese wore masks before Covid and it wasn't to be polite to others. It was the deathly smog caused by all the renewables they were using.
How many are we building?
About 500 fewer I would venture.
PeteinSQ said:
Presumably any attempt to hugely slash our carbon emissions will require a massive infrastructure overhaul and that will create jobs?
How do the airlines etc survive this though? People just can't go on planes as often as they do now if we're going to cut emissions can they?
Chatting about this with a few friends, the question we all had was this: "what, exactly, is required to cut emissions by 78% within 15 years? Never mind the rhetoric, what we want is to be told how such a reduction will affect our normal lives."How do the airlines etc survive this though? People just can't go on planes as often as they do now if we're going to cut emissions can they?
For example:
- there's talk of replacing the heating systems in houses (with heat pumps?) - what cost and how easy to retro-fit? Does the expertise exist?
- will flights become massively expensive, signalling the end of holidays unless you can drive there?
- ditto with ICE cars; will they be banned or just impossibly expensive to run?
One other thing emerged: none of us expected to get the Green party when we voted Tory. "Hey everyone, let's go vegan!" is not what you expect from Kwasi Kwarteng.
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Yeah but that's not news to me, but it seemed China making a not insignificant effort to deploy renewables was news to you.
Yes, do you know that when I did the Yangtze River cruise in 2019 culminating in spending the day at the Three Gorges hydro electric dam, bigggest the world I believe until they build an even bigger one in Tibet, I completely missed the fact that it didn't run on coal. Same as I also missed the air pollution warnings when in Shanghai and Bejiing. Theres a reason the Chinese wore masks before Covid and it wasn't to be polite to others. It was the deathly smog caused by all the renewables they were using.
How many are we building?
About 500 fewer I would venture.
Lots of people here talking like they're all about 'fairness' but clearly avoiding those aspects.
robinessex said:
Boris Johnson: Climate change about jobs not 'bunny hugging'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
This tells us all we need to know(some of us new it already or had a nagging feeling it wasn't really about the climate).https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
I really fail to see how an economy can grow(i actually don't think we have to keep growing the ponzi scheme but that's just me)by going green because surely it is about reducing manufacturing and consumerism.
Shoppers on the high street will have a tough decision to make,......'hmm,do i buy this 60inch flatscreen or put it towards an inefficient heat pump that i don't need as i have a perfectly usable gas boiler'
Sex sells and all that.
Edited by garagewidow on Friday 23 April 10:35
Growth & jobs = smoke & mirrors
The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The f
k does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???
It's insanity!
The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The f
k does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???It's insanity!
Slightly OT but this is the futility of it all and just how far the brainwashing is ingrained,
Sitting at one of our sites in my company vehicle,next to it is a cardboard recycling container for the general public to use,now 2 cars appear(you have to drive down an access road to get to it)both retired ,probably.First driver in a looks new large bmw big engine and all that can't tell you what one they all look the bloody same to me gets out of his boot 2 yes 2 flattened boxes to put in the container,the second a softroader nissan juke or some such,bang,same thing couple of boxes.
With this sort of madness there's no hope.
Sitting at one of our sites in my company vehicle,next to it is a cardboard recycling container for the general public to use,now 2 cars appear(you have to drive down an access road to get to it)both retired ,probably.First driver in a looks new large bmw big engine and all that can't tell you what one they all look the bloody same to me gets out of his boot 2 yes 2 flattened boxes to put in the container,the second a softroader nissan juke or some such,bang,same thing couple of boxes.
With this sort of madness there's no hope.
Brave Fart said:
Chatting about this with a few friends, the question we all had was this: "what, exactly, is required to cut emissions by 78% within 15 years? Never mind the rhetoric, what we want is to be told how such a reduction will affect our normal lives."
For example:
One other thing emerged: none of us expected to get the Green party when we voted Tory. "Hey everyone, let's go vegan!" is not what you expect from Kwasi Kwarteng.
Boris seems to be into creating jobs and innovative solutions rather than just banning and taxing stuff, or like some of his other schemes they just won’t actually happen. For example:
- there's talk of replacing the heating systems in houses (with heat pumps?) - what cost and how easy to retro-fit? Does the expertise exist?
- will flights become massively expensive, signalling the end of holidays unless you can drive there?
- ditto with ICE cars; will they be banned or just impossibly expensive to run?
One other thing emerged: none of us expected to get the Green party when we voted Tory. "Hey everyone, let's go vegan!" is not what you expect from Kwasi Kwarteng.
I don’t think voters will be particularly disadvantaged because Boris (or any other politician) is primarily motivated by getting re-elected, not the environment.
At the moment he’s talking about new jobs and new industries and making green aircraft and fuels etc.
There’s always a bogeman like cars or planes that we hear might get banned etc but the main changes might be less obvious to the average voter. The government know that none of this will happen if they get voted out so have to do it all in a way that keeps people onside.
I expect also there will be imaginative ways in which each country counts its own emissions (like manufacturing things abroad) plus other ‘solituons’ like carbon trading schemes.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 April 11:00
jshell said:
Growth & jobs = smoke & mirrors
The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The fk does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???
It's insanity!
You are so wrong. The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The f
k does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???It's insanity!
The jobs already exist and are growing in number or do you ignore such things as turbine manufacturing in the UK. How about all the R&D at which the UK is very good.
Pandemics and Climate change are totally different issues. Please do not conflate the two.
Perhaps you would rather fritter Billions away rectifying and mitigating the impact of climate change if we do not act sufficiently.
Economies only exist because a population likes to buy things that other populations make by using a form of energy to reduce the labour required to make it.
If everyone stopped making things tomorrow how long do you think various economies would last before civil war or rioting started.
If everyone stopped making things tomorrow how long do you think various economies would last before civil war or rioting started.
Nickgnome said:
jshell said:
Growth & jobs = smoke & mirrors
The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The fk does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???
It's insanity!
You are so wrong. The economy will be halved, unemployment will double/treble, UBI will keep the masses happy and we'll be taxed till we have to sell up and rent.
The cost, The cost, The cost, The cost... How The f
k does anyone pay for covid, annihilating emissions (business) and survive as a country???It's insanity!
The jobs already exist and are growing in number or do you ignore such things as turbine manufacturing in the UK. How about all the R&D at which the UK is very good.
Pandemics and Climate change are totally different issues. Please do not conflate the two.
Perhaps you would rather fritter Billions away rectifying and mitigating the impact of climate change if we do not act sufficiently.
garagewidow said:
Economies only exist because a population likes to buy things that other populations make by using a form of energy to reduce the labour required to make it.
If everyone stopped making things tomorrow how long do you think various economies would last before civil war or rioting started.
Months rather than years.If everyone stopped making things tomorrow how long do you think various economies would last before civil war or rioting started.
PeteinSQ said:
jshell said:
So much fail I don't even know where to start, so, as they say, never argue with an idiot...
Which bit did he get wrong?Next, we cannot store windpower output. Its sporadic, dependent on weather systems.
The pandemic, whilst 'real' was an opportunity for the introduction of extreme climate measures. Many of us have said this from day 1. When I say climate measures, I mean societal measures.
If climate change was such a serious issue then we wouldn't have had to use the pandemic to introduce the measures, we'd simply have done it.
Having lived in sub-Saharan Africa with conditions like the predicted ones we are being terrified with, I can say that it's warm, wet and incredibly fertile. There's less to spend on heating, insulation, clothes etc. If that's what's coming then why would mitigation cost billions?
Then there's the forthcoming destruction of all industry - how else do you cut emissions? So, unemployment will become uncontrollable...
Rosy, huh?
Edited by jshell on Friday 23 April 11:57
jshell said:
PeteinSQ said:
jshell said:
So much fail I don't even know where to start, so, as they say, never argue with an idiot...
Which bit did he get wrong?Next, we cannot store windpower output. Its sporadic, dependent on weather systems.
The pandemic, whilst 'real' was an opportunity for the introduction of extreme climate measures. Many of us have said this from day 1. When I say climate measures, I mean societal measures.
If climate change was such a serious issue then we wouldn't have had to use the pandemic to introduce the measures, we'd simply have done it.
Having lived in sub-Saharan Africa with conditions like the predicted ones we are being terrified with, I can say that it's warm, wet and incredibly fertile. There's less to spend on heating, insulation, clothes etc. If that's what's coming then why would mitigation cost billions?
Then there's the forthcoming destruction of all industry - how else do you cut emissions? So, unemployment will become uncontrollable...
Rosy, huh?
Edited by jshell on Friday 23 April 11:57
MMGW and Covid = a perfect storm to sign off Agenda 21. We are well and truly stuffed and it's going to hurt!! Thankfully it wont bother me that much as I live in a beautiful small town, holidays don't interest me/us in fact the last time we flew was about 8 years ago and that was to Scotland for a funeral! I work as and when i choose for 4 hours or so to cover my booze and fags. Wifey loves her job and is on very good money. No kids. Rarely drive, free bus pass......life is a bowl of cherries
dickymint said:
jshell said:
PeteinSQ said:
jshell said:
So much fail I don't even know where to start, so, as they say, never argue with an idiot...
Which bit did he get wrong?Next, we cannot store windpower output. Its sporadic, dependent on weather systems.
The pandemic, whilst 'real' was an opportunity for the introduction of extreme climate measures. Many of us have said this from day 1. When I say climate measures, I mean societal measures.
If climate change was such a serious issue then we wouldn't have had to use the pandemic to introduce the measures, we'd simply have done it.
Having lived in sub-Saharan Africa with conditions like the predicted ones we are being terrified with, I can say that it's warm, wet and incredibly fertile. There's less to spend on heating, insulation, clothes etc. If that's what's coming then why would mitigation cost billions?
Then there's the forthcoming destruction of all industry - how else do you cut emissions? So, unemployment will become uncontrollable...
Rosy, huh?
Edited by jshell on Friday 23 April 11:57
MMGW and Covid = a perfect storm to sign off Agenda 21. We are well and truly stuffed and it's going to hurt!! Thankfully it wont bother me that much as I live in a beautiful small town, holidays don't interest me/us in fact the last time we flew was about 8 years ago and that was to Scotland for a funeral! I work as and when i choose for 4 hours or so to cover my booze and fags. Wifey loves her job and is on very good money. No kids. Rarely drive, free bus pass......life is a bowl of cherries
I'm so, so angry with those who beg for THEIR freedom. Just 3 weeks, just a few more weeks, roll up your sleeve, get a covipass, lose your job, it's 'climate' see... Bend over, spread a bit more.
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