Voting as a muslim
Discussion
s1962a said:
Tell me why some brexit supporters think it’s fair game to include British born people in the conversation around immigration. They are as British as you and me so why not concentrate on uncontrolled EU migration when it comes to Brexit.
Why aren't you concentrating on uncontrolled EU migration? Suggesting the side that didn't vote in favour of migration policy that favours the predominantly white people of Western Europe is the side with the bigger racism issue?Johnnytheboy said:
ATG said:
Johnnytheboy said:
OP: if your religion trumps your political opinions arrived at through rational thought,have you considered praying for guidance on how to vote?
Have you read what the OP said, because you clearly haven't understood it. The OP's religion clearly does not trump his political opinions. He also says that he's not very religious.
So as far as I can see you haven't understood his dilemma and you've then suggested a strategy he's unlikely to find satisfactory.
fesuvious said:
Religion has nothing to do with it.
I'm Jewish, although not religious. Yes it does. There is no way I'm voting for anyone associated with Labour. I can vote for a party who's policies align mostly with my views, even if others who also like those policies are people I wouldn't otherwise agree with, or if their motives are different. I just have to vote for the nearest candidate who aligns with my beliefs. At the moment, I don't like any of them much. I'd summarise thus:
- Labour: Anti-semites, anti-British, ends-justify-the-means, economically illiterate sweeties-for-all policies. Brexit-y leader who's changed his principles for power, despite being unchanging being his main selling point.
- Conservatives: No obvious vision, Boris (both good and bad), way too "green" in the wrong ways, more silly economics but not as silly as Labour. Local MP very Remain-y, but changed his mind when it looked like he'd be chucked out. Only lives a few doors from me but never engages locally that I can see.
- Lib Dems: Neither Liberal nor Democratic.
- Brexit: not standing in my constituency, a "spoiler" vote anyway now. Farage has rather lost the plot
We don't have much else here.
ETA: Muslims and everyone else should read Majid Nawaz's analysis of Labour's anti semitism. They won't stop with the Jews. They've already started on India - and if Israel=Jews then India=Indians. Please don't throw us under the bus because you agree with free broadband or whatever.
Edited by mr_spock on Saturday 16th November 09:26
fesuvious said:
Ok, you have approached this the other way.
For the OP his religion shouldn't be a first consideration before looking at the manifestos.
For you, I agree with you. As a Jewish person you cannot vote for a party who many suspect are sympathetic to a cause that would happily see your throat cut.
Fully with you on that
I don't think that you can escape religion as it can play a part.For the OP his religion shouldn't be a first consideration before looking at the manifestos.
For you, I agree with you. As a Jewish person you cannot vote for a party who many suspect are sympathetic to a cause that would happily see your throat cut.
Fully with you on that
Look at Labour and anti-semitism is an obvious issue.
Look at the Conservatives and there are clearly questions about Islamophobia as evidenced by recent suspensions and the calls for an inquiry.
Look at the Brexit party and there are numerous examples of candidates who have had to stand down due to Islamophobic comments and you've got Farage sharing a platform with the AfD who have a whole section singling out Islam in their manifesto.
Look at the Lib Dems and there was Tim Farron and his religious views influencing his view on homosexuality.
I'm pretty sure that if I were Jewish or Muslim I imagine it would be pretty high up my list if I felt I was going to be singled out for special treatment simply because of my religion.
Respectfully it seems a bit naive to suggest it shouldn't be a primary consideration.
fesuvious said:
What I find dark about this thread, and similar
Thee word 'racist' is thrown around and is linked to 'brown people' , 'muslims' and 'islam'. As it has been going back through the posts.
Just to clarify;
Skin colour has nothing to do with religion.
Muslims can be any skin colour
The distrust, and/or fear of Islam does NOT mean a distrust or fear of Muslims.
Misguided fear of muslims is plain daft.
Using 'brown people' in any discussion related to any religion is, from the left deceitfully deliberately deflecting misdirection and from a right wing perspective pig ignorant and knuckle dragging.
Islam distrust and fear is a different story. From a different base, and far more valid.
Let's not mingle the three
ETA; personally I find skin colour racism abhorrent. Actively disliking a group of people should their belief system, manners, 'way' or culture clash with your own is natural. It's human. It is not racism.
Technically you’re right, but that doesn’t reflect reality. Anyone with a certain skin colour would be termed a Muslim by the ignoramuses and they wouldn’t bat an eyelid at Mike Tyson, or Janet Jackson. Thee word 'racist' is thrown around and is linked to 'brown people' , 'muslims' and 'islam'. As it has been going back through the posts.
Just to clarify;
Skin colour has nothing to do with religion.
Muslims can be any skin colour
The distrust, and/or fear of Islam does NOT mean a distrust or fear of Muslims.
Misguided fear of muslims is plain daft.
Using 'brown people' in any discussion related to any religion is, from the left deceitfully deliberately deflecting misdirection and from a right wing perspective pig ignorant and knuckle dragging.
Islam distrust and fear is a different story. From a different base, and far more valid.
Let's not mingle the three
ETA; personally I find skin colour racism abhorrent. Actively disliking a group of people should their belief system, manners, 'way' or culture clash with your own is natural. It's human. It is not racism.
Edited by fesuvious on Saturday 16th November 09:24
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:fesuvious said:
Ok, you have approached this the other way.
For the OP his religion shouldn't be a first consideration before looking at the manifestos.
For you, I agree with you. As a Jewish person you cannot vote for a party who many suspect are sympathetic to a cause that would happily see your throat cut.
Fully with you on that
I don't think that you can escape religion as it can play a part.For the OP his religion shouldn't be a first consideration before looking at the manifestos.
For you, I agree with you. As a Jewish person you cannot vote for a party who many suspect are sympathetic to a cause that would happily see your throat cut.
Fully with you on that
Look at Labour and anti-semitism is an obvious issue.
Look at the Conservatives and there are clearly questions about Islamophobia as evidenced by recent suspensions and the calls for an inquiry.
Look at the Brexit party and there are numerous examples of candidates who have had to stand down due to Islamophobic comments and you've got Farage sharing a platform with the AfD who have a whole section singling out Islam in their manifesto.
Look at the Lib Dems and there was Tim Farron and his religious views influencing his view on homosexuality.
I'm pretty sure that if I were Jewish or Muslim I imagine it would be pretty high up my list if I felt I was going to be singled out for special treatment simply because of my religion.
Respectfully it seems a bit naive to suggest it shouldn't be a primary consideration.
I mean, why is it wrong to question beliefs of religions in this day and age when some of those beliefs are very outdated? Many people use the somethingphobe all too easily.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No ATG, think again. His comment "but how can I vote for anything to do with Brexit, when it's supporters have so much racism at it's core?".
So he admits his friends voted for Brexit, and they're OK. People on Pistonheads voted for Brexit but they're OK because they seem enlightened.
So perhaps it's time for him to actually provide some strong figures and statistics to prove that there's so much racism at its core.
He is arguing that there are so many racists supporting Brexit, because of things he's seen and heard, which makes Brexit a bad thing and in turn makes any party supporting Brexit a bad thing. I could argue that I've seen so much awful undemocratic, ignorant, arrogant and elitist behaviour from the remain side that I could never support a remain leaning party.
The truth is I won't support a remain supporting party because I want to leave and I will be very wary of certain remain politicians because of the things they've done. I won't be basing my decision on what their supporters have done or because of the abuse I've seen from remainers on here.
I pointed out a proposal from CONSERVATIVE MPs that suggested better visa status for the people of Commonwealth nations. Many of these nations are chock full of 'brown people' and Muslims too. Signed by that evil b
d Andrew Bridgen, who was denounced on here for offering some support to JRM. No comment though, I guess, as that doesn't suit the narrative.OP, I don't think you're being fair in your analysis of the situation. Fair enough if you're looking for reason to 'change your mindset' but if it's simply an agenda you wish to push then you need to provide some figures and data that prove your link is significant.
ChevyChase77 said:
Much of it is generally whipped up by the opposition or those with an agenda.
I mean, why is it wrong to question beliefs of religions in this day and age when some of those beliefs are very outdated? Many people use the somethingphobe all too easily.
Yes some of it is whipped up but you can't whip up what isn't there to start with.I mean, why is it wrong to question beliefs of religions in this day and age when some of those beliefs are very outdated? Many people use the somethingphobe all too easily.
It's fine to question beliefs.
Hook nose slurs or photos of bacon sandwiches aren't about questioning beliefs.
Labour support people that have persecuted and killed far more Muslims than everyone else put together. They are also far more likely to pigeonhole you and restrict you to an easy identifiable group to keep you in it.
Anyway, remove the made up stuff from the equation and vote for a future where if your kids work hard and are successful, they can make their own decisions as to how they live their lives.
Anyway, remove the made up stuff from the equation and vote for a future where if your kids work hard and are successful, they can make their own decisions as to how they live their lives.
Troubleatmill said:
Do we need the following threads...
Voting as a muslim
Voting as a hindu
Voting as a catholic
Voting as a protestant
Voting as a jew
Voting as a plymouth brethren
Voting as a mormon
Voting as a wee free kirk of Scotland.
Voting as a flying spaghetti monster follower
Voting as a scientologist
etc
etc
No. We probably just need Voting as a Muslim & Voting as a Jew, as those are the 2 religions where many of the adherents feel one of the main parties have issues. Voting as a muslim
Voting as a hindu
Voting as a catholic
Voting as a protestant
Voting as a jew
Voting as a plymouth brethren
Voting as a mormon
Voting as a wee free kirk of Scotland.
Voting as a flying spaghetti monster follower
Voting as a scientologist
etc
etc
HTH.
The problem is this:
Remember that a polish guy was stabbed to death a few days after the brexit vote, which the rabid pro-remain clan were presenting as what happens now, because of brexit? Wondered why they shut up about him? Could it POSSIBLY have been that his assailant was a 15 year old black boy to whom the victim had just addressed using the n-word?
Somewhat different from the "roving gangs of neo-nazis" picture some were trying to paint.. and there is the whole problem, stop believing all the tainted and sensationalistic media BS about what brexit is, a load of people voted against the UK being an administrative region of the EU kollektiv, and that's ALL you know. Sure, there's a load of knuckle dragging racist imbeciles that will undoubtedly come out as pro UK independence, but you shouldn't judge them as typical brexiteers, any more than a guy I worked with who "supports" millwall and is covered in scars from knife wounds from fights with Cardiff etc mobs I would consider a typical football fan.
The fact is, most of the pro EU mob seem unable to actually present a good case for the EU, and smearing brexit and downplaying the UKs standing seems to be the only tool in their toolbox, tactics familiar to anyone with experiences of controlling/abusive people.
Remember that a polish guy was stabbed to death a few days after the brexit vote, which the rabid pro-remain clan were presenting as what happens now, because of brexit? Wondered why they shut up about him? Could it POSSIBLY have been that his assailant was a 15 year old black boy to whom the victim had just addressed using the n-word?
Somewhat different from the "roving gangs of neo-nazis" picture some were trying to paint.. and there is the whole problem, stop believing all the tainted and sensationalistic media BS about what brexit is, a load of people voted against the UK being an administrative region of the EU kollektiv, and that's ALL you know. Sure, there's a load of knuckle dragging racist imbeciles that will undoubtedly come out as pro UK independence, but you shouldn't judge them as typical brexiteers, any more than a guy I worked with who "supports" millwall and is covered in scars from knife wounds from fights with Cardiff etc mobs I would consider a typical football fan.
The fact is, most of the pro EU mob seem unable to actually present a good case for the EU, and smearing brexit and downplaying the UKs standing seems to be the only tool in their toolbox, tactics familiar to anyone with experiences of controlling/abusive people.
Teddy Lop said:
actually present a good case for the EU, and smearing brexit and downplaying the UKs standing seems to be the only tool in their toolbox, tactics familiar to anyone with experiences of controlling/abusive people.
Financial services passport ?Hate some of the EU ideal, but there are some benefits.
Gary C said:
Teddy Lop said:
actually present a good case for the EU, and smearing brexit and downplaying the UKs standing seems to be the only tool in their toolbox, tactics familiar to anyone with experiences of controlling/abusive people.
Financial services passport ?Hate some of the EU ideal, but there are some benefits.
As a Christian I would say having one major party who hates you and one who pander to the basest elements of your co-religionists is an important mile stone on the road to integration. Before you know it the Grand Mufti will announce that he doesn't actually believe in God and ISIS will be promoting gay marriage.
Teddy Lop said:
my point was not that there arent some great advantages and good arguements to be made in favour of being part of a European group and evan the eu!
Free movement of people - makes it easier to travel and work in the EU. Freedom of establishment of business, treaty benefits like no withholding tax on interest and dividend payments - very important for international businesses.
Some tax harmonisation, which results in preventing abusive tax structures.
Tariff free trade with a huge trading block.
Consumer protection rights.
Etc etc.
Alpinestars said:
Teddy Lop said:
my point was not that there arent some great advantages and good arguements to be made in favour of being part of a European group and evan the eu!
Free movement of people - makes it easier to travel and work in the EU. Freedom of establishment of business, treaty benefits like no withholding tax on interest and dividend payments - very important for international businesses.
Some tax harmonisation, which results in preventing abusive tax structures.
Tariff free trade with a huge trading block.
Consumer protection rights.
Etc etc.
But anyway this isn't eu vs rule Britannia, there's already a few of those i gather...
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