Voting as a muslim

[kurokawa]

s1962a said:

So i've voted in pretty much every election that I could, as have my parents (who migrated here in the 60s). Traditional Labour voters as most of my families' working class peers seem to be, but i've steered more toward voting for the Conservatives as economically they speak the same language as me, and being an additional rate taxpayer who doesn't really get much bank for his buck on taxes/council resources i'd rather not be taxed more, or be forced to sell my BTL to a renter. Or be more of the squeezed middle as I currently seem to be. I was born here. vote for who I like right?

I am on the same ship, you could probably guess I am not white, not EU, and I earn my citizenship the hardway without the privilege. I see myself British more than Japs, but this is not always how the local see me. I have been Labor since I can vote and I didnt hesitate to vote for Blair even I lose 2 comrade in Iraq. Yet, from gordon brown to corbyn, Labor is getting further and further from my believe.
However, T.May, and Boris, may not be xenophobic but certain not immigrant friendly. There are no way I would for Corbyn who live in the imagine land, but I couldnt put my vote on Tory as well. Like you have mention, I have experience very little racism when I was younger, but since the referendum there are few times some random strangers walk into my face tell me I am going home. Voting other party like Green or Lib Dem is literally wasting a vote.

[Halb]

kurokawa said:

I have experience very little racism when I was younger, but since the referendum there are few times some random strangers walk into my face tell me I am going home. Voting other party like Green or Lib Dem is literally wasting a vote.

No words for that. It must be pretty difficult, and saddening.

[flight147z]

kurokawa said:

Like you have mention, I have experience very little racism when I was younger, but since the referendum there are few times some random strangers walk into my face tell me I am going home.

I am sorry that you have had to deal with this

[bitchstewie]

EddieSteadyGo said:

And then the mirror effect is happening with Islamaphobia in Conservatives. Older people tend to vote and identify as Conservative. And some of those are also hard-of-thinking. So they see Al-Qaeda and ISIS committing terrible acts in pursuit of their own twisted agenda, and they see these terrorists claiming to be muslim and followers of Islam. So in their ignorance, they incorrectly conflate the aims of these terrorists with muslims, and so we see a rise in Islamaphobia among the older population and as such among the Conservative party.

When you have Farage, Trump, and Tommy Robinson endorsing Boris with no obvious pushback it doesn't help.

I think it's a little naive to think it's just the older types when it's also the UKIP and EDL type rabbles now being told by their leaders to "back Boris".

[EddieSteadyGo]

bhstewie said:

When you have Farage, Trump, and Tommy Robinson endorsing Boris with no obvious pushback it doesn't help.

I think it's a little naive to think it's just the older types when it's also the UKIP and EDL type rabbles now being told by their leaders to "back Boris".

You have missed my point.

There is clearly a small percentage of the population who have racist tendencies. They are not defined by their age but by their attitude. They might be inclined to vote EDL etc - so of course those people exist, but I wasn't referring to those people.

I'm putting forward a hypothesis to explain the recent rise of islamophobia in the Conservative party and the rise of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.

The number of people involved in these cases has been increasing. So this large number of people have either held their bias all along, and only now has it become apparent. Or their attitude and views are being influenced by more recent events.

I'm suggesting the basis of the problem is they see a clear injustice but misattribute the responsibility. So they see ISIS committing atrocities for example and blame all muslims, rather than the terrorists responsible. Or they see innocent Palaistians suffering and blame all jews, rather than the Israeli government.

[bitchstewie]

EddieSteadyGo said:

You have missed my point.

There is clearly a small percentage of the population who have racist tendencies. They are not defined by their age but by their attitude. They might be inclined to vote EDL etc - so of course those people exist, but I wasn't referring to those people.

I'm putting forward a hypothesis to explain the recent rise of islamophobia in the Conservative party and the rise of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.

The number of people involved in these cases has been increasing. So this large number of people have either held their bias all along, and only now has it become apparent. Or their attitude and views are being influenced by more recent events.

I'm suggesting the basis of the problem is they see a clear injustice but misattribute the responsibility. So they see ISIS committing atrocities for example and blame all muslims, rather than the terrorists responsible. Or they see innocent Palaistians suffering and blame all jews, rather than the Isreali government.

So the thick.

Yes I think that's fair and will certainly explain some of it.

I think you also have to look at the leadership of the party to set the tone and Boris has a history of writing inflammatory articles that, depending on your view, are either "witty satire" or perhaps make some people think that seeing Muslims as "letterboxes" and "bank robbers" is acceptable.

The problem with dog whistles is that when you blow one you shouldn't be surprised when dogs turn up.

[Gary C]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

A misguided one in my view too.

Religion may often be a dividing line but it's not usually the cause of conflict, because most religions I know of don't demand their followers to start wars.

As Brexit has shown us, dividing lines don't have to be religious. Look at the comments here, leavers are thick racists, remainers are dupes following corrupt leaders. It's not far away from "the other side" being a corrupt sect or hostile religion. Just different flags.

For many religion brings joy, structure and meaning to life that rational humanism does not. It also binds families and communities together with a common frame of reference across generations, which is something I believe to be both necessary and desirable. And infinitely better than everyone just "living for today."

Not much help to the OP though. How about the Greens?

For may religion brings wars, sexual abuse, misery, death.

We need to grow up.

Problem with many religions, they were an expression of control, disguised.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Gary C said:

For may religion brings wars, sexual abuse, misery, death.

We need to grow up.

Problem with many religions, they were an expression of control, disguised.

I don't think religion invented these things. They are an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Religion is a system of control, and it is open to abuse but so is any system of control.

Abolishing one system of control does not mean we will have no system of control, and abolishing all systems of control does not necessarily mean we will all become rational humanists living happily together.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Gary C said:

For may religion brings wars, sexual abuse, misery, death.

We need to grow up.

Problem with many religions, they were an expression of control, disguised.

I don't think religion invented these things. They are an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Religion is a system of control, and it is open to abuse but so is any system of control.

Abolishing one system of control does not mean we will have no system of control, and abolishing all systems of control does not necessarily mean we will all become rational humanists living happily together.

My old Grandad was a very keen naturalist and studied wildlife all his life, he always used to say how humans were
very clever but also very stupid, and how no other creature came near the senselessness of some of their actions and beliefs.

I always remember the time he was talking about religious believers out on the hills one day and said 'When was the last time you saw a Red Deer Stag with a bible? and why is it only humans that have religion?, he had a very valid point.

[EddieSteadyGo]

bhstewie said:

So the thick.

Pretty much - it's probably though also more the type of people who see the world in a more simplistic way and don't try and understand the detail for themselves. Hence they latch onto simple explanations/scapegoats.

The link to age is relevant just because it helps explains why they manifest where they do. So for example, older people tend to be Conservative voters, and so it is more likely they will be members of the Conservative party etc etc.

[Halb]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

I always remember the time he was talking about religious believers out on the hills one day and said 'When was the last time you saw a Red Deer Stag with a bible? and why is it only humans that have religion?, he had a very valid point.

Humans are the only animal that put extra time into being extra dumb.

[anonymous-user]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Pretty much - it's probably though also more the type of people who see the world in a more simplistic way and don't try and understand the detail for themselves. Hence they latch onto simple explanations/scapegoats.

The link to age is relevant just because it helps explains why they manifest where they do. Older people tend to be Conservative voters, and so it is more likely they will be members of the Conservative etc etc.

So, still trolling this perhaps? As I already asked you, did all those that voted for other political parties across the last century simply die off or change political allegiance when they hit a certain age??!! No oldies supporting any other political party?
Give us some stats eh?

[EddieSteadyGo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not trolling. But I don't respond to people who haven't properly read my post. If you had read my original post carefully, you wouldn't be posting that question...

[bitchstewie]

EddieSteadyGo said:

bhstewie said:

So the thick.

Pretty much - it's probably though also more the type of people who see the world in a more simplistic way and don't try and understand the detail for themselves. Hence they latch onto simple explanations/scapegoats.

The link to age is relevant just because it helps explains why they manifest where they do. So for example, older people tend to be Conservative voters, and so it is more likely they will be members of the Conservative party etc etc.

I agree to a point.

They're about to have an influx of voters thanks to Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson endorsing Boris though and I'm not sure how many of those are the elderly demographic.

I guess all I'm saying is that some of it is the simple explanation i.e. they're attracting some votes from a bunch of racists who probably wouldn't have voted for Teresa May or David Cameron.

[anonymous-user]

EddieSteadyGo said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not trolling. But I don't respond to people who haven't properly read my post. If you had read my original post carefully, you wouldn't be posting that question...

You wrote 'older people tend to identify and vote as Conservative'. You also suggested old people are hard of thinking.
What kind of percentages, what kind of age group are you talking about in particular?
Back it up, clarify or backtrack.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 17th November 11:03

[bitchstewie]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought it was common knowledge.

How Britain voted at the 2017 general election

[foxbody-87]

Brexit is the opposite of racist in that it will level the playing field somewhat for non-EU migrants seeking work, who are at a disadvantage against (predominantly White) EU migrants who have easier access to the UK job market owing to freedom of movement.

[Pinoyuk]

Been surrounded by Jewish clients etc .It seems just about all of them voted Brexit and would ever ever vote Labour .The Catholics ones are on the fence as usual ! But for sure the French will exit “Europe” within 3 years of us doing so .

[EddieSteadyGo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Comprehension and general knowledge are clearly not your strong points.

I said *some* older people are hard-of-thinking. And because a higher proportion of older people tend to vote Conservative, it follows that a portion of these people will find themselves members of the Tory party.

My suggestion is to avoid reading your own bias onto what other people write.

[shed driver]

I was always under the impression that voting was Haraam.

Maybe someone more learned than me could confirm this?

SD