Voting as a muslim

[s1962a]

McGee_22 said:

I always find it a little odd, even as a religous person, when during a political, or even gemeral conversation, people define their nationality with their religion; you hear the term 'British Muslim' quite a lot, as the OP here describes himself, but I would offer you hear people describe themselves with the terms 'British Protestant', 'British Catholic', 'British Presbyterian', 'British Jew', 'British Orthodox Christian' and so on far less often.

The terms make perfect and obvious sense during a conversation regarding religion but with respect to politics less so, to me at least.

If you read what I wrote up till a few years it wasn’t an issue when it came to politics. Something seems to have changed recently and (not so) closet racists seem to think it’s fair game to include a racist narrative.

[s1962a]

Troubleatmill said:

".....( a lot).....but how can I vote for anything to do with Brexit, when it's supporters have so much racism at it's core"

Brexit is really simple to understand.
We want to be like the other 130 countries in the world that are not in the EU. And run our own affairs.
Is that too difficult to grasp?


If you think the core is racism - you are wrong.

Tell me why some brexit supporters think it’s fair game to include British born people in the conversation around immigration. They are as British as you and me so why not concentrate on uncontrolled EU migration when it comes to Brexit.

[s1962a]

Johnnytheboy said:

And you, in turn, have missed my point.

What was your point ?

[s1962a]

JagLover said:

True enough which is the problem with "islamophobia", because taking the word as written it means you are not allowed to express criticism of both a religion and an ideology.

Since when, in a free liberal society, have both of these aspects been exempt from debate and criticism?.

To the OP if you want a backdoor anti-blasphemy law vote Labour. If you want to live in a free society vote Conservative and at least you might have a chance at it (but no guarantee of it).

Edited by JagLover on Saturday 16th November 08:35

Not sure if you read some points I made, but I want to vote for a party for the issues the really matter in this country. For me thats economic policy and other matters, but anti religious sentiments from party members should not be part of it.

And I am a traditional Conservative voter, who's feeling a bit illusioned with the party for reasons i mentioned previously

[s1962a]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No agenda here than talking openly with you all on PH, my issues with the Conservative party as I see it. I think i've said it many times now that economically and otherwise the tories make a lot of sense for me, and Labour would no doubt ruin the economy with it's full on mental socialist policy. So I would ask you, why aren't the tories doing more to get the vote of people they might be marginalising with comments from some of their members.

[s1962a]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Not much help to the OP though. How about the Greens?

++

You can't be serious? I have a hard time sorting out which recycling bit goes in which bin. Apparently tea bags go in the food bin, but the string bit cannot. Is that right? What about having to clean plastic containers and checking their recycling logo and seperating the lid if it's not recyclable.

[s1962a]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Maybe you're not following events in the party then. Heres a sample.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/12/r...

[s1962a]

Kent Border Kenny said:

s1962a said:

Yeah, it shouldn't be should it?

I lived in Tower Hamlets until recently. The mayoral elections in recent years showed the damage done to U.K. politics by Muslims voting as a block in line with “community leaders” in the mosques.

That time, fortunately, Rahman was caught out and removed, but his acolytes are still all over the elections in the borough.

You’re saying the mayoral elections were rigged by Muslims voting en masse due to pressure from “community leaders”? Did I read that right?

Why are you bringing this topic up in relation to Muslims voting for the Conservatives. I fail to see the relevance.

[s1962a]

fesuvious said:

Why on earth would he support Islam though?

Don’t need Boris Johnson to support Islam. Just cut out the anti Islamic rhetoric from party members and have some follow up action to remove it from the party.

[s1962a]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, I agree with you, the actions taken in the last few days is a good sign for sure.

Long way to go though.

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-muslim-islamo...

If the leadership and party are really against these sentiments then it would be nice for Boris to come out and give some assurances to those these comments are offending, and re-iterating his party has no room for these views. That would be enough for me.

However I do think that Boris won't do this as then he'll alienate another faction of Tory voter who do hold these views.

[s1962a]

Kent Border Kenny said:

s1962a said:

You’re saying the mayoral elections were rigged by Muslims voting en masse due to pressure from “community leaders”? Did I read that right?

Why are you bringing this topic up in relation to Muslims voting for the Conservatives. I fail to see the relevance.

I didn’t say it, the courts did. It was a huge scandal at the time, I’m surprised that you don’t remember.

And it was in response to a couple of posts above.

Ok i get it now - you were referring to the Tower Hamlets elections, and not the London Mayoral ones? Yeah, what a shower of ste those corrupt bds are.

[s1962a]

Kent Border Kenny said:

s1962a said:

Ok i get it now - you were referring to the Tower Hamlets elections, and not the London Mayoral ones? Yeah, what a shower of ste those corrupt bds are.

Yes, sorry, I should have been clearer. I lived there throughout, and it was a shameful time for the borough. Not much seems to have changed, Lutfur Rahman is still hovering around in the background getting his people into positions of power.

I'm a Londoner as well, and have never seen this influence of 'voting for the community leader' as you put it. I've never been asked to vote for anyone specifically, so do you think it's a specific tower hamlets thing with the local Bangladeshi community?

[s1962a]

Here's where Boris can really show leadership

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bor...

Condemn Tommy Robinson and what he stands for and totally distance the Tory party from it.

Can the Conservatives win the next election and deliver Brexit without the support of followers of far right sympathisers such as Tommy Robinson? I suspect not.

[s1962a]

ElectricSoup said:

s1962a said:

Robertj21a said:

Forget the religion bit, this is the UK and most of us long ago realised that all religions are just brainwashing.
Brexit is now only really about ensuring we retain democracy and you will know that people have wildly differing views, regardless of their usual politics.
Vote for whoever represents your needs.

Right now that seems to be labour or the lib dems.. and i'm not voting lib dems as i dont want another referendum. But labour will rape my wallett and make me poor.. so take racism or be poorer.. which would you choose?

The Lib Dems would not hold another referendum if they were elected as a majority government. They would revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. So you can safely vote Lib Dem if that's your only concern with them. They were only pushing for a referendum in the last Parliament because there was more likelihood of other MPs from other parties forming a majority for that course of action. Labour are explicitly standing on the basis of holding a referendum, so surely that would eliminate them from your thinking.

So they only main Brexit party are the tories right now? Labour and lib dem will either hold a referendum or cancel it?

All the more reason for the tories not to alienate a voting group they may want the support of. Suspending members is a good start but not the end of it. Get out there and make a public statement Boris, or just accept that it's not important enough. Either way it's a clear message.

https://conservativemuslimforum.com/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/senior-to...

[s1962a]

Keoparakolo said:

Digga said:

Javid is correct.

However, when you look at the party, compared to the alternatives, it is far more tangibly progressive.

Arguing that one thing is good, because you believe others are worse is a fallacy. All can be bad.

To say the OP should vote Tory because they’re probably not as racist as the other parties proves my point.

If (quite rightly so) Jewish members would not vote for Labour due to their awful record on anti-semitism, no one would try to talk them out of it, as it's a personal choice. It's the same thing here - Boris can easily fix this if he chooses to, if it's important enough. If it's not then carry on, but dont pretend like the party doesn't have a problem with this.

Reading some of the comments about people facing racism since the referendum, it seems to echo what i've heard from people we know too. Luckily I haven't experienced this myself, but know people that have.

[s1962a]

Rare said:

bhstewie said:

By coincidence this was one the front page of the Guardian.

Muslim voters could swing 31 marginal seats, research finds

What a nonsense article by a nonsense paper.

Do Muslims really vote en masse??

Surely these people are British why would they be defined as being Muslim as opposed to British ?

Why do they feel they need to stand differently ?
Do Sikhs and Hindus vote en masse or is it only a Muslim thing ?

muslims don't vote en masse.. plenty of opinions, just any other British people. So why did 25 tory members get suspended for anti islamic rhetoric? let people vote for the party that best represents their views, rather than single them out for abuse.

[s1962a]

Mr Tidy said:

At the risk of being controversial, why would a Muslim emigrate to a predominately Christian country in the first place?

And then living in a 5% minority group seem to expect to have some sort of control?

What about the views of the other 95% of residents - or don't you understand how a democracy is supposed to work?

i didn't emigrate here, I was born here, and i love this country. Do you? If so, surely you'd want any prejudice and hatred for specific groups out of politics.

[s1962a]

The Moose said:

I guess you have to make a decision. You have to decide if you’re more worried about your wallet or a potential for receiving some flack for being brown.

By flack do you mean racist abuse ?

[s1962a]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

romeogolf said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

romeogolf said:

Telling someone from a minority group that religion and politics are unrelated is the whitest bullshirt going and I'm sorry that the OP has had 14+ pages of this to scroll through to find any sensible answers.

Is that "white" in the pejorative sense?

Yes

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Would it be acceptable to counter that complaining a whole party is endemically racist because of a few tweets is the brownest bullst going?

No, but it is acceptable to consider a party too tolerant of racism based on the words and actions of its members.

Acceptable to people who would never vote Conservative to start with. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being white in the first place, and nothing to suggest endemic racism in the Tory party based on a few social media posts by a tiny proportion of the membership.

oh look, another one.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/general-ele...

Labour has an anti semitism problem, and the Conservatives have a problem with the far right, which includes anti islamic rhetoric.

[s1962a]

RTB said:

s1962a said:

oh look, another one.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/general-ele...

Labour has an anti semitism problem, and the Conservatives have a problem with the far right, which includes anti islamic rhetoric.

You have to make a call on how big you feel the problem is with each party and what impact that would have on the society you want to live in.

Or you could go into the polling booth cover up the candidates with one hand and put a tick next to a random candidate with the other.

When i wrote this post last week it was out of frustration that the Tories weren't doing anything to fix this but they seem to have suspended members that are affected, which is a good sign. Couple this with the racist incidents i've been reading and hearing about, which seem to have increased since Brexit, it just made me wonder whether voting Conservative for me is like turkeys voting for christmas. Judging by some of the comments on here, I have a feeling the tories have got the nations mood just right on this one unfortunately.