Voting as a muslim

[ChevyChase77]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Teddy Lop said:

Sure, there's a load of knuckle dragging racist imbeciles that will undoubtedly come out as pro UK independence, but you shouldn't judge them as typical brexiteers, any more than a guy I worked with who "supports" millwall and is covered in scars from knife wounds from fights with Cardiff etc mobs I would consider a typical football fan.

He may not be a typical football fan.....but he is a typical Millwall fan.

I think many Brexiteers are in danger of falling into the Mark Francois hole that Will Self dug for him. Self said that all racists were Brexiteers, and Mark Francois demanded an apology because he thought Self had said all Brexiteers are racists. And even after 10 ins of arguing, he was still too stupid to grasp the difference.

It's ridiculous. All racists are Brexiteers. Every one. We all know this. For Brexiteers to deny it because they are embarrassed about it is a daft as a Muslim denying that all members of I.S. are Muslims. All members of I.S. are Muslims! But not all Muslims are members of I.S.

Wrong. Diane Abbott. David Lammy both remainers and racist.

[clio007]

All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.

[B'stard Child]

clio007 said:

All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.

Not this st again - can’t believe how many racists that you know find some better friends please

I only know two people I would say with certainty are racist - one voted leave and the other remain

[Troubleatmill]

clio007 said:

All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.

Can you cite some evidence for this?

[B'stard Child]

Troubleatmill said:

clio007 said:

All Brexiteers are not racist.

But all racists are brexiteers.

Can you cite some evidence for this?

The only evidence is that if something is repeated enough eventually it becomes a truth

Normally also features religion as well

[ElectricSoup]

s1962a said:

Robertj21a said:

Forget the religion bit, this is the UK and most of us long ago realised that all religions are just brainwashing.
Brexit is now only really about ensuring we retain democracy and you will know that people have wildly differing views, regardless of their usual politics.
Vote for whoever represents your needs.

Right now that seems to be labour or the lib dems.. and i'm not voting lib dems as i dont want another referendum. But labour will rape my wallett and make me poor.. so take racism or be poorer.. which would you choose?

The Lib Dems would not hold another referendum if they were elected as a majority government. They would revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. So you can safely vote Lib Dem if that's your only concern with them. They were only pushing for a referendum in the last Parliament because there was more likelihood of other MPs from other parties forming a majority for that course of action. Labour are explicitly standing on the basis of holding a referendum, so surely that would eliminate them from your thinking.

[Keoparakolo]

Digga said:

Javid is correct.

However, when you look at the party, compared to the alternatives, it is far more tangibly progressive.

Arguing that one thing is good, because you believe others are worse is a fallacy. All can be bad.

To say the OP should vote Tory because they’re probably not as racist as the other parties proves my point.

[s1962a]

ElectricSoup said:

s1962a said:

Robertj21a said:

Forget the religion bit, this is the UK and most of us long ago realised that all religions are just brainwashing.
Brexit is now only really about ensuring we retain democracy and you will know that people have wildly differing views, regardless of their usual politics.
Vote for whoever represents your needs.

Right now that seems to be labour or the lib dems.. and i'm not voting lib dems as i dont want another referendum. But labour will rape my wallett and make me poor.. so take racism or be poorer.. which would you choose?

The Lib Dems would not hold another referendum if they were elected as a majority government. They would revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit. So you can safely vote Lib Dem if that's your only concern with them. They were only pushing for a referendum in the last Parliament because there was more likelihood of other MPs from other parties forming a majority for that course of action. Labour are explicitly standing on the basis of holding a referendum, so surely that would eliminate them from your thinking.

So they only main Brexit party are the tories right now? Labour and lib dem will either hold a referendum or cancel it?

All the more reason for the tories not to alienate a voting group they may want the support of. Suspending members is a good start but not the end of it. Get out there and make a public statement Boris, or just accept that it's not important enough. Either way it's a clear message.

https://conservativemuslimforum.com/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/senior-to...

[s1962a]

Keoparakolo said:

Digga said:

Javid is correct.

However, when you look at the party, compared to the alternatives, it is far more tangibly progressive.

Arguing that one thing is good, because you believe others are worse is a fallacy. All can be bad.

To say the OP should vote Tory because they’re probably not as racist as the other parties proves my point.

If (quite rightly so) Jewish members would not vote for Labour due to their awful record on anti-semitism, no one would try to talk them out of it, as it's a personal choice. It's the same thing here - Boris can easily fix this if he chooses to, if it's important enough. If it's not then carry on, but dont pretend like the party doesn't have a problem with this.

Reading some of the comments about people facing racism since the referendum, it seems to echo what i've heard from people we know too. Luckily I haven't experienced this myself, but know people that have.

[Digga]

s1962a said:

Keoparakolo said:

Digga said:

Javid is correct.

However, when you look at the party, compared to the alternatives, it is far more tangibly progressive.

Arguing that one thing is good, because you believe others are worse is a fallacy. All can be bad.

To say the OP should vote Tory because they’re probably not as racist as the other parties proves my point.

If (quite rightly so) Jewish members would not vote for Labour due to their awful record on anti-semitism, no one would try to talk them out of it, as it's a personal choice. It's the same thing here - Boris can easily fix this if he chooses to, if it's important enough. If it's not then carry on, but dont pretend like the party doesn't have a problem with this.

Reading some of the comments about people facing racism since the referendum, it seems to echo what i've heard from people we know too. Luckily I haven't experienced this myself, but know people that have.

The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. You can argue there are levels of Purgatory, but they are all Hellish.

[Keoparakolo]

Digga said:

The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. You can argue there are levels of Purgatory, but they are all Hellish.

Again, that’s not true. There are several parties that have shown no racism and their policies are reasonable. You may not like their policies, but that doesn’t make them wrong.

The Tories have backtracked on their promised investigation into Islamophobia. They have just suspended 25 members (10 former and 15 current councillors) for posting / supporting Islamophobic material. They have a problem and suggesting he should still vote for them is the very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. He would be endorsing their approach and all the comments suggesting their policies will be better for him and his kids are farcical. The way it’s going he and his kids could be hounded out of their jobs / homes even country if the trend continues unchecked.

[bitchstewie]

Keoparakolo said:

Again, that’s not true. There are several parties that have shown no racism and their policies are reasonable. You may not like their policies, but that doesn’t make them wrong.

The Tories have backtracked on their promised investigation into Islamophobia. They have just suspended 25 members (10 former and 15 current councillors) for posting / supporting Islamophobic material. They have a problem and suggesting he should still vote for them is the very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. He would be endorsing their approach and all the comments suggesting their policies will be better for him and his kids are farcical. The way it’s going he and his kids could be hounded out of their jobs / homes even country if the trend continues unchecked.

Unfortunately people seem to miss this point and it's simply seen as "a few bad apples".

Time will tell whether or not that's true.

Suspensions are good but backtracking on an inquiry that was promised live on national TV isn't the best of starts if you want to demonstrate that you're taking the issue seriously.

I think in many cases it's dismissed because "Ah but what about Corbyn" and perhaps because they aren't likely to be on the receiving end of it.

[Vanden Saab]

Keoparakolo said:

Again, that’s not true. There are several parties that have shown no racism and their policies are reasonable. You may not like their policies, but that doesn’t make them wrong.

The Tories have backtracked on their promised investigation into Islamophobia. They have just suspended 25 members (10 former and 15 current councillors) for posting / supporting Islamophobic material. They have a problem and suggesting he should still vote for them is the very definition of turkeys voting for Christmas. He would be endorsing their approach and all the comments suggesting their policies will be better for him and his kids are farcical. The way it’s going he and his kids could be hounded out of their jobs / homes even country if the trend continues unchecked.

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Digga said:

The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. .

The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem, and a PM who is not a fit and proper person to be PM of Great Britain & N. Ireland.

[Keoparakolo]

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

LibDems - as a party they have no racist issues, there may be the odd idiot, but that isn’t endemic through the party. Their policies are reasonable. You Amy not like them, but they are reasonable

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist. Again, their policies might not be to your liking

Greens - pretty much a bunch of treehuggers, but have reasonable policies, not that the vast majority agree with them all.

Independent candidates - some of them are Ok, some less so. They may well have great policies for their local seat

Just to add, the OP can abstain, or spoil his paper if none of the above work for his views.

It’s not difficult to “guess” that your reaction will be “but, but, but Brexit” and that is the problem here. Brexit may well be what many want, but it has become an enabler for some to vocalise their inbuilt prejudices. The referendum has polarised views and sadly created a position where people are so obsessed that they will forgive anything to deliver what they want. Johnson’s recent failure to condemn Tommy Robinson’s endorsement of him smacks of `trump failing to criticise the `white `supremacists in Charlottesville.

[Digga]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Digga said:

The problem is, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Seventh Day Adventist or even Rastafarian, voting for any other party than the Tories (this time around) promises nothing but utter chaos. .

The bigger problem is a vote for the Tories promises nothing but utter mayhem, and a PM who is not a fit and proper person to be PM of Great Britain & N. Ireland.

If you think the Lib-D-Dum-Dums (or anyone else) can deliver on their promise to cancel Brexit, you are on another planet. No one can.

Given that is the direction, the only party with any semblance of hope of delivering is...? (Answers on a ballot paper please.)

Also, the logic that because Brexit appeared to give some racist morons the idea they could ramp up their stupidity, cancelling Brexit will somehow put an end to such is risible. Given what we know of these types, it would likely make it worse.

[Liokault]

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.

You typed that with a straight face?

[R Mutt]

Plenty of people who voted to leave the EU based purely on migration. But plenty who voted to remain because they see it as a socialist super state purely for its lack of internal borders.

[Keoparakolo]

Liokault said:

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Would you care to list them or do we have to guess...

SNP - yes they’re very pro-Scottishnindependence, but they’re not outwardly racist.

.

You typed that with a straight face?

I typed it badly with a straight face, unless you’re so sensitive that you think them wanting independence is the same as them being outwardly racist to you about your skin colour / religion.

[Pothole]

ATG said:

voyds9 said:

If you see your self as part of an homogeneous group don't be surprised when the other 95% treat you as part of an homogeneous group

Saying "I'm a Muslim" is NOT saying "I'm part of an homogeneous group." It doesn't take much imagination to see that. For example do you think Christians in Northern Ireland are an homogenous group?

The homogeneity is almost always a supposition made by someone who definitely doesn't consider them self a member of the group. Anyone inside such a supposed group will see ask the factions, ranges of opinions held, the arguments, etc

Utterly ste example. How many in Northern Ireland would describe themselves as merely "Christian"? Do try and compare like with like if you really think you've got a point.