Voting as a muslim
Discussion
s1962a said:
Oh plenty, and look at their track record on anti semitism.. thats not good either. I dont like labour, but I dont want another referendum either so no lib dems
You might get another ref with labour anyway. A straight lib dem victory - however unlikely - would be a straight revoke and would seriously curtail the thirst for "controlled immigration" and all that has unleashed. A lib dem king maker party as part of a coalition - that could also dampen the worst excesses of either Lab or Con.
Great call on LBC to Nick Ferrari this morning where he was schooled on the realities of immigration.
s1962a said:
Thats really interesting. Do you have any articles I can read to brush up this? Contrary to what it might seem I am an objective thinker. Cheers
No. Just cynicism from watching how politics works. Nothing is true, everything we hear in the media is calculated to push public opinion this way or that, or to pressure the politicians directly. Anti-semitism in the Labour party, Islamophobia in the Tories, privatizing the NHS. All headline grabbing designed to trigger a reaction.I have just voted to select a Muslim for our Conservative candidate. He (could 've been a she) got my vote because I felt he was the best person for the job.
Race nor religion didn't come into it.
I voted leave. That doesn't make me racist. I voted that way as I didn't like the closer political union model and expansionism that the EU is pushing and see it as a Union that is likely to self destruct. Hopefully by the UK leaving it will rein in the EU ambitions and it may manage to thrive.
So the answer to your question is vote Conservative, and urge all your friends to do the same.
Race nor religion didn't come into it.
I voted leave. That doesn't make me racist. I voted that way as I didn't like the closer political union model and expansionism that the EU is pushing and see it as a Union that is likely to self destruct. Hopefully by the UK leaving it will rein in the EU ambitions and it may manage to thrive.
So the answer to your question is vote Conservative, and urge all your friends to do the same.
s1962a said:
...
Yes I do believe that our resources are streched due to uncontrolled immigration, and that we might need a bit more control from the EU,...?
Yes I do believe that our resources are streched due to uncontrolled immigration, and that we might need a bit more control from the EU,...?
DeepEnd said:
Fears over immigration have been massively hyped up by racists for years in this country.
You're actually going with that line. Despite the fact the OP said he believes resources are stretched due to uncontrolled migration!You utter clown!
Scootersp said:
Which countries I wonder are less racist / more accepting as a whole than us?
Hard to test thoroughly I suspect but it strikes me as we're not bad in general are we, even in these brexit times where some are more vocal as they (falsely) perceive their views are somewhat validated!
Not many. Every now and then we see a report saying that by and large the UK population are fine with people if they come and work. (Up to a point) We're pretty good at LGBT rights as well.Hard to test thoroughly I suspect but it strikes me as we're not bad in general are we, even in these brexit times where some are more vocal as they (falsely) perceive their views are somewhat validated!
Try being African descent in an inner city part of Berlin or Paris.
Try being LGBT anywhere East of Poland! Or the entire middle east!
Indeed my experience would suggest that the further East you go from the UK, the less accepting of "brown people" people are! It's a cultural thing! I've had numerous examples of comments about someone's colour etc from the various Romanian, Bulgarians and Latvian d
heads I've met in my life. Danes and Finns are pretty bad for it to. (Cant speak for the Swedes not met enough) Worse, they expect you to agree with themAus is obviously bad towards their indigenous people.
A Kiwi friend whose normally pretty easy going. Was vocally anti Samoans to me many moons ago. Which surprised.
Obviously there are extremists on all sides But I just don't see the UK as anywhere near as bad as many other nations. Despite what the handwringers will tell you
As for who to vote for.
Anyone but Labour would be my advice. Conservatives or LDs aren't going to dramatically change the country for the worse. You might not agree with 1 or 2 policies, but they're pretty safe in a "don't rock the boat" way.
Labour is literally a threat to the prosperity/future of this country.
Brexit/Greens/AN Other are wasted votes.
Even in the darkest, end of Brown days (when he was selling the UKs Gold for £3 and ruining our credit rating.) was the UK ever about to plummet out of the G20! Corbyn and his puppet master McDonnell will actually, definitely, 100% bankrupt this country in 5 years!
I'd quite like to see Labour kicked to 3rd place.
I always find it a little odd, even as a religous person, when during a political, or even gemeral conversation, people define their nationality with their religion; you hear the term 'British Muslim' quite a lot, as the OP here describes himself, but I would offer you hear people describe themselves with the terms 'British Protestant', 'British Catholic', 'British Presbyterian', 'British Jew', 'British Orthodox Christian' and so on far less often.
The terms make perfect and obvious sense during a conversation regarding religion but with respect to politics less so, to me at least.
The terms make perfect and obvious sense during a conversation regarding religion but with respect to politics less so, to me at least.
Scootersp said:
Which countries I wonder are less racist / more accepting as a whole than us?
Hard to test thoroughly I suspect but it strikes me as we're not bad in general are we, even in these brexit times where some are more vocal as they (falsely) perceive their views are somewhat validated!
This....I spoke to a colleague the other day told me of another colleague from eastern Europe who said to him he must know the Jews controlled everything as he was a Jew.Hard to test thoroughly I suspect but it strikes me as we're not bad in general are we, even in these brexit times where some are more vocal as they (falsely) perceive their views are somewhat validated!
Former Colleagues from eastern Europe still used the N word, called Chinese people cockroaches etc.
Germany and FRance both have far right Parties in parliment, as do italy (not sure about spain or portugal).
Is Norway less racist.....not sure but to be honest if it is I would bet its non white population is a fraction of ours.
Nah its a good country, UKIP racist (an not all of them are racist) members were always an will always ne racist they just had a main stream party to join.
Vote for who you like an who best looks after your family.
s1962a said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Big-Bo-Beep said:
muslims make up 5% of the uk population ?
that is an interesting statistic
its probably wise not to say anything further
Touch intimidatingthat is an interesting statistic
its probably wise not to say anything further
Apparently 1 in 12 school children is also muslim
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Just noticed the misunderstandingYes this comment as above "its probably wise not to say anything further" came across as a touch intimidating to say the least
stevesingo said:
Brexit is not just about anti-immigration. For some, it is the UK's freedom to define how it's own business in the best interests of the UK. For others, it is absolutely anti-immigration, based on racism. Sadly the opinions of the former have been lost in the noise (an empty drum makes the most noise) made by racists and the accusations by remainers that Brexit is only about anti-immigration and all Brexiteers are racists.
As, out of the major parties, the Conservatives are seen as a pro-Brexit party, the racists are supporting the Cons. That doesn't mean the Cons are happy about that. Sure, they will take their votes, but I can't see them making policy decisions to keep them happy, they don't need to. The BNP supporters are hardly going to vote Labor or LibDem.
So, don't judge a party based upon who supports them, the party can't control that. Much in the same way Jihadists don't define Muslims.
As, out of the major parties, the Conservatives are seen as a pro-Brexit party, the racists are supporting the Cons. That doesn't mean the Cons are happy about that. Sure, they will take their votes, but I can't see them making policy decisions to keep them happy, they don't need to. The BNP supporters are hardly going to vote Labor or LibDem.
So, don't judge a party based upon who supports them, the party can't control that. Much in the same way Jihadists don't define Muslims.
BOR said:
Don't vote as a Muslim. Vote as a father. Or an uncle.
Brexit has given these racist fk a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?
Thanks for making my point of using the minority voice to tar the majority.Brexit has given these racist f
k a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?I'm not a racist xenophobe. The racist f
ks can be managed. You think they have a toe hold, but they only look that way. If Brexit happens, what will they shout about. They will have what they have been shouting about for the last 3 yrs. It won't end in a massive 1930s Germany repeat.BOR said:
Don't vote as a Muslim. Vote as a father. Or an uncle.
Brexit has given these racist fk a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?
Just demonstrating my point.Brexit has given these racist f
k a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?"These racist f
k" have no more power or influence than they did in 2015, but fear of them is being used to try to manipulate voting intentions.There was an interesting interview with Morgan Freeman on how he identifies. He simply said he was American and he was offended by those who but Irish or Latino or African infront of American. So I would say you are British pure and simple. That doesn't mean you have to be exclusively but in this context that is who you are
As a citizen you are equal and your religion will come into your choice but only if it is relevant in some way, in the same way that other issues will.
Some of the comments on here are suggesting that a vote for the Lib Dems will stop racism, it will not. We have had bigoted idiots for years before and will have for years to come, they are no worse now than before but many remainers are making out brexit was all about that as it was only bigoted racists that voted leave, simply not true.
As for who you should vote for, well from what you have written you and your family have worked hard, you pay tax at a high rate and have assets, this makes you a target for Labour to reduce your wealth. They have made no bones about it, you owning a rental property alone will make you a marked man.
You sound like a person of business mind, so you will understand that to pay for all the services we need we need a strong economy not state control. So realistically you have limited choices and at the moment it would be Tory.
But whatever you do vote for someone
As a citizen you are equal and your religion will come into your choice but only if it is relevant in some way, in the same way that other issues will.
Some of the comments on here are suggesting that a vote for the Lib Dems will stop racism, it will not. We have had bigoted idiots for years before and will have for years to come, they are no worse now than before but many remainers are making out brexit was all about that as it was only bigoted racists that voted leave, simply not true.
As for who you should vote for, well from what you have written you and your family have worked hard, you pay tax at a high rate and have assets, this makes you a target for Labour to reduce your wealth. They have made no bones about it, you owning a rental property alone will make you a marked man.
You sound like a person of business mind, so you will understand that to pay for all the services we need we need a strong economy not state control. So realistically you have limited choices and at the moment it would be Tory.
But whatever you do vote for someone
s1962a said:
RichB said:
Maybe going off at a tangent but why do you refer to yourself as muslim when you say you're not religious?
Because I am a muslim. I believe in god but I just don't practice it. Does it need to be black and white in your opinion? fesuvious said:
Religion has nothing to do with it.
Exactly this.It has nothing to do with sky fairy stuff.
I get concerned when the PM and others in position of power mutter "what would my favoured flavour of sky fairy want".
The fact they think like that should immediately exclude them from office.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Friday 15th November 22:06
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Jesus wept. He thinks that the are a significant number of Brexiteers who ARE bringing religion into it and that is alienating him from the Conservatives who he would otherwise be supporting. The OP is NOT bringing religion into politics. It is there already. Pretending it isn't is stupid. The Conservatives already recognise that they have a problem with anti-Muslim prejudice in a similar way to the Labour party having a problem with anti-Semitism. Neither party is grasping the nettle because it'll be embarrassing and will produce a spike of bad publicity when they do. But the failure to lance the boil is cowardly, immoral and ultimately counter-productive.Penelope Stopit said:
FazerBoy said:
There are of course people who voted Brexit who are racist
As there are people that voted remainPeople telling the OP religion has got nothing to do with it, but the Tories have an Islam problem, just as Labour have a Jewish problem. So for those groups, religion has got everything to do with it.
Saying that being a Muslim doesn’t matter in the UK...is probably easier to say if you are not a Muslim.
People saying that religion and nationality are completely different are probably too young. It was within some people’s lifetime that being British pretty much meant you were white and Christian. The Christian church has fortunately lost most of its power and we have become a secular nation but that is very recent. In most of the world religion still plays a much more central role in public life and so hardly surprising that for many immigrants it is more important.
People saying that religion and nationality are completely different are probably too young. It was within some people’s lifetime that being British pretty much meant you were white and Christian. The Christian church has fortunately lost most of its power and we have become a secular nation but that is very recent. In most of the world religion still plays a much more central role in public life and so hardly surprising that for many immigrants it is more important.
voyds9 said:
If you see your self as part of an homogeneous group don't be surprised when the other 95% treat you as part of an homogeneous group
Saying "I'm a Muslim" is NOT saying "I'm part of an homogeneous group." It doesn't take much imagination to see that. For example do you think Christians in Northern Ireland are an homogenous group?The homogeneity is almost always a supposition made by someone who definitely doesn't consider them self a member of the group. Anyone inside such a supposed group will see ask the factions, ranges of opinions held, the arguments, etc
gizlaroc said:
BOR said:
Brexit has given these racist fk a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?
The bigot has arrived. Oh the irony. k a toehold now, do you want your kids growing up knowing you didn't do what you could to block these scapegoating xenophobes ?
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