Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Slagathore said:
Helicopter123 said:
I’m not a socialist but worry about the damage Boris may be doing to the UK economy. If you spend spend spend eventually there is a day of reckoning.
Tuna said:
Only you would have the thick skin to attempt to make political gains out of a pandemic.
Of course, the hypocrisy is noted - you posted a number of times that the Tories were following Labour spending plans in the pandemic. Just two months of that and you're already complaining about it. Just imagine if we had a Labour government planning to keep spending like that for five years.
I'll refer you to Tuna's post a few up that you've conveniently ignored.Of course, the hypocrisy is noted - you posted a number of times that the Tories were following Labour spending plans in the pandemic. Just two months of that and you're already complaining about it. Just imagine if we had a Labour government planning to keep spending like that for five years.
You're not fooling anyone. It's just embarrassing!
Not really sure what point is being made by anyone here. It is perfectly justifiable to be worried about the huge national debt, because the younger generations (myself included in that) will have to pay it off.
Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
Condi said:
Not really sure what point is being made by anyone here. It is perfectly justifiable to be worried about the huge national debt, because the younger generations (myself included in that) will have to pay it off.
Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
Wash your mouth out young man! You can't say things like that in this day & age, there are snowflakes melting everywhere!Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
Its about personal responsibility & accountability. Concepts that seem to have long gone out the window and the lack of them is at the root of just about every systemic & structural problem we have.
Somebody (else) always has to be to blame and somebody else should foot the bill. These days these things seem to drive practically all behaviour - right through society, business and to the very top of Government. There is no easy fix.
Condi said:
Not really sure what point is being made by anyone here. It is perfectly justifiable to be worried about the huge national debt, because the younger generations (myself included in that) will have to pay it off.
Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
You're not exactly comparing apples with apples. If you have heart disease you don't generally pass it on to many others whilst carrying out you normal life.Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
Condi said:
Not really sure what point is being made by anyone here. It is perfectly justifiable to be worried about the huge national debt, because the younger generations (myself included in that) will have to pay it off.
Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
How would you feel if the NHS was totally over run every time a pandemic hits, not only that it is severely hampered by lots of its own staff being taken out by it?Also, we simply can't afford to do the same thing each time a new virus appears. We had a large pandemic in the 1950s which killed far more than have died from Covid and didn't shut down the country. We narrowly avoided Sars and Mers in the 2000s, and there will certainly be another new virus which could cause a pandemic before this debt is paid off. We need less sensationalism, more science, and an acceptance that the government can't protect us from everything. Living is dangerous, people die. You cannot just put life on hold, funded by the taxpayer, to prevent disease and illness. More people died last year from heart disease than will die of Covid. A similar, if not higher number, will die this year from heart disease. All perspective has been lost under a blanket of fear and hysteria.
How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
After this is over we need to have a better plan. For a start everyone should have access to a reusable fpp3 mask or similar. They are £20 so the cost isn't an issue. With the right protection we could have pretty much carried on near normal.
The NHS needs a stock or washable aprons and gowns. Then the PPE issue comes down to washing/sterilisation. This is easier than trying to ramp up PPE production.
We need a properly designed emergency ventilator that uses easy to manufacture parts that can be made by CNC or 3D printing. Get things like the software sorted now, and make it run on tablets etc.
98elise said:
How would you feel if the NHS was totally over run every time a pandemic hits, not only that it is severely hampered by lots of its own staff being taken out by it?
How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
After this is over we need to have a better plan. For a start everyone should have access to a reusable fpp3 mask or similar. They are £20 so the cost isn't an issue. With the right protection we could have pretty much carried on near normal.
The NHS needs a stock or washable aprons and gowns. Then the PPE issue comes down to washing/sterilisation. This is easier than trying to ramp up PPE production.
We need a properly designed emergency ventilator that uses easy to manufacture parts that can be made by CNC or 3D printing. Get things like the software sorted now, and make it run on tablets etc.
What we also need is an educated public, perhaps we should all club together and pay for one that informs and educates so that we can all assess and moderate our individual risks and don't need a senior politician and CMO to have a discussion on national television about how to handle cutlery at a barbeque 9 weeks into a pandemic.How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
After this is over we need to have a better plan. For a start everyone should have access to a reusable fpp3 mask or similar. They are £20 so the cost isn't an issue. With the right protection we could have pretty much carried on near normal.
The NHS needs a stock or washable aprons and gowns. Then the PPE issue comes down to washing/sterilisation. This is easier than trying to ramp up PPE production.
We need a properly designed emergency ventilator that uses easy to manufacture parts that can be made by CNC or 3D printing. Get things like the software sorted now, and make it run on tablets etc.
andy_s said:
98elise said:
How would you feel if the NHS was totally over run every time a pandemic hits, not only that it is severely hampered by lots of its own staff being taken out by it?
How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
After this is over we need to have a better plan. For a start everyone should have access to a reusable fpp3 mask or similar. They are £20 so the cost isn't an issue. With the right protection we could have pretty much carried on near normal.
The NHS needs a stock or washable aprons and gowns. Then the PPE issue comes down to washing/sterilisation. This is easier than trying to ramp up PPE production.
We need a properly designed emergency ventilator that uses easy to manufacture parts that can be made by CNC or 3D printing. Get things like the software sorted now, and make it run on tablets etc.
What we also need is an educated public, perhaps we should all club together and pay for one that informs and educates so that we can all assess and moderate our individual risks and don't need a senior politician and CMO to have a discussion on national television about how to handle cutlery at a barbeque 9 weeks into a pandemic.How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
After this is over we need to have a better plan. For a start everyone should have access to a reusable fpp3 mask or similar. They are £20 so the cost isn't an issue. With the right protection we could have pretty much carried on near normal.
The NHS needs a stock or washable aprons and gowns. Then the PPE issue comes down to washing/sterilisation. This is easier than trying to ramp up PPE production.
We need a properly designed emergency ventilator that uses easy to manufacture parts that can be made by CNC or 3D printing. Get things like the software sorted now, and make it run on tablets etc.
"Education Education Education"
That should sort it...or perhaps not, if it amounts to big spending and grade inflation.
98elise said:
How would you feel if the NHS was totally over run every time a pandemic hits, not only that it is severely hampered by lots of its own staff being taken out by it?
How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
How many people were ill and how many were self isolating? If it had been a cold most of those would have gone to work, and simply put for most people it's still not a big problem.How do you think the country would function if 25% of workers were off sick. TFL lost that many staff to sickness early on in the crisis. How many would be sick if we hadn't locked down?
The fact we have taken action is why we still have a functioning NHS, and why the numbers are comparable to something like heart desease rather then a war.
It's not just a matter of letting a few extra people die, and everything else moves on as normal.
The NHS was never under serious pressure - we built 8 Nightingale hospitals and only 1 was used, even then to no more than 50% capacity. Speak to doctors and with most people staying away from A+E and lots of regular work postponed, hospitals are not especially busy at the moment.
Condi said:
How many people were ill and how many were self isolating? If it had been a cold most of those would have gone to work, and simply put for most people it's still not a big problem.
The NHS was never under serious pressure - we built 8 Nightingale hospitals and only 1 was used, even then to no more than 50% capacity. Speak to doctors and with most people staying away from A+E and lots of regular work postponed, hospitals are not especially busy at the moment.
You can't retrospectively say "oh, we didn't suffer that badly, the reaction was overblown" - For the majority of this year so far, we have not had sufficient information to know how this disease would pan out. Even a tiny adjustment in the reproduction rate, a slight change in the way it was transmitted, or a minor difference in the mortality rate could have filled those Nightingale hospitals and doubled the number of deaths.The NHS was never under serious pressure - we built 8 Nightingale hospitals and only 1 was used, even then to no more than 50% capacity. Speak to doctors and with most people staying away from A+E and lots of regular work postponed, hospitals are not especially busy at the moment.
Dodging a bullet does not mean it's safe to play Russian Roulette.
Interesting article in the paper today that Boris is trying to roll back on the Huwawei 5G deal amid security concerns, it could be an interesting few days. On face value the change of mind is being disguised as a security review, but I wonder if the growing pressure within the party is the real reason? Idle speculation, but I think the breaking of the Cummings story is linked to the relaxation of lockdown measures, I just get the sense that he and Boris may now be dancing to a different tune.
Blue62 said:
Interesting article in the paper today that Boris is trying to roll back on the Huwawei 5G deal amid security concerns, it could be an interesting few days. On face value the change of mind is being disguised as a security review, but I wonder if the growing pressure within the party is the real reason? Idle speculation, but I think the breaking of the Cummings story is linked to the relaxation of lockdown measures, I just get the sense that he and Boris may now be dancing to a different tune.
Completely unrelated. The 5G thing has been rumbling on since last year. Trump is also sabre rattling on this, and the industry has responded with a number of initiatives to provide alternatives to Chinese equipment. Until recently it really was the case that only a handful of companies in the world could produce 5G infrastructure, Huawei being one of them.It's all coming to a bit of a head. Suddenly it's both possible and politically expedient to move critical infrastructure away from a nation that is very well established to routinely spy on others.
At the same time, the serious issues in Hong Kong are causing some big headaches over how the international community should respond. Governments are realising they're severely limited putting pressure on China because we're so heavily dependent on Chinese industry and finance.
rockin said:
How long are you going to sit in that cupboard under the stairs? How will you know when it's "safe" to come out?
Doh. The point was the advice and preparation at the start of the pandemic is not suddenly wrong because we've since discovered this particular disease is not as deadly as first thought. Come out of your closet, but don't pretend there wasn't reason to be more concerned, or that we shouldn't take seriously the prospect of the next pandemic.
Tuna said:
Completely unrelated. The 5G thing has been rumbling on since last year. Trump is also sabre rattling on this, and the industry has responded with a number of initiatives to provide alternatives to Chinese equipment. Until recently it really was the case that only a handful of companies in the world could produce 5G infrastructure, Huawei being one of them.
It's all coming to a bit of a head. Suddenly it's both possible and politically expedient to move critical infrastructure away from a nation that is very well established to routinely spy on others.
At the same time, the serious issues in Hong Kong are causing some big headaches over how the international community should respond. Governments are realising they're severely limited putting pressure on China because we're so heavily dependent on Chinese industry and finance.
I’m not convinced, since the Cummings saga we have seen a government that was moving very slowly, suddenly click into overdrive on the relaxation of lockdown. It was widely reported that there was a schism within the Tory party over lockdown, just as there is with 5G, I stated it was idle speculation, but I’m not convinced these events are unrelated. It's all coming to a bit of a head. Suddenly it's both possible and politically expedient to move critical infrastructure away from a nation that is very well established to routinely spy on others.
At the same time, the serious issues in Hong Kong are causing some big headaches over how the international community should respond. Governments are realising they're severely limited putting pressure on China because we're so heavily dependent on Chinese industry and finance.
HK will be a tricky one as will the potential threat that Huawei will walk away, leaving our 3 and 4G networks at risk.
Blue62 said:
I’m not convinced, since the Cummings saga we have seen a government that was moving very slowly, suddenly click into overdrive on the relaxation of lockdown. It was widely reported that there was a schism within the Tory party over lockdown, just as there is with 5G, I stated it was idle speculation, but I’m not convinced these events are unrelated.
HK will be a tricky one as will the potential threat that Huawei will walk away, leaving our 3 and 4G networks at risk.
Given that Trump has waded in with both feet on Hong Kong and China, I suspect we're being dragged along in his wake.HK will be a tricky one as will the potential threat that Huawei will walk away, leaving our 3 and 4G networks at risk.
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