Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)
Discussion
I think it's just their extreme ideology forming the definition of what is good and bad and this became clear from day 1 when Labour MPs standing against Corbyn for leadership were abused.
It really is about supporting the underdog whether that's a minority group, Palestine, or Dulwich Hamlet.
You could argue that my perception of these fanatics is itself black and white but then I'm not going round shouting at people.
At least Blair had half a clue about doing something productive with a loosely socialist template.
It really is about supporting the underdog whether that's a minority group, Palestine, or Dulwich Hamlet.
You could argue that my perception of these fanatics is itself black and white but then I'm not going round shouting at people.
At least Blair had half a clue about doing something productive with a loosely socialist template.
jakesmith said:
Burwood said:
Personally, I’ve never seen the vitriol for Jews like it since that prick became leader of labour. It’s very interesting for me. I am Jewish but am atheist. I am proud of my families heritage. I won’t stand for any prejudice. All my life I’ve had to fight against it.
Same for me and spot on, he is a disgusting racist simple as that and much of his organisation and supporters are tooAstonZagato said:
It is remarkable how unpopular both the main contenders are.
Only Blair has won an election from a position where he has the lowest approval rating of the two leaders. And he is the only leader to win from a more unpopular position than Johnson. No-one has ever been as unpopular as Corbyn at the time of an election.[url]
Burwood said:
jakesmith said:
Burwood said:
Personally, I’ve never seen the vitriol for Jews like it since that prick became leader of labour. It’s very interesting for me. I am Jewish but am atheist. I am proud of my families heritage. I won’t stand for any prejudice. All my life I’ve had to fight against it.
Same for me and spot on, he is a disgusting racist simple as that and much of his organisation and supporters are tooScratch the surface and all that. Some people are really showing their true colours by justifying Corbyn.
Burwood said:
What is tragic or perhaps eye opening. People we considered friends for 20 years have let their political bent spill over into hate. How can I ignore AS denier comments. Tory scum comments when they know i’m a Tory and a Jew. It’s at best ignorant and thoughtless or worse, a real affront intended to make a point. All of this crap is now acceptable under Corbyn.
Here is a Whatsapp from pretty much my best friend who is an imbecile. "I would rather a racist in power that looks after the majority of people than some government that only cares about the wealthy, power and corporations - not that the labour party are racist in anyway, more than normal society - the problem you have is that most people don't agree with you - labour are not inherently racist - the conservatives are inherently corrupt"
FrenchCarFan said:
Big if here but...
If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
Of course not. Momentum isn't Corbyn's personal bodyguard or anything like that. It's a Labour-affiliated political organisation to promote and campaign for socialist politics within the Labour Party, just as Progess does the same for 'Blairite' politics, the Fabians campaign for parliamentary social democracy, Labour CND brings together people focussed on nuclear disarmament, the JLM is a group of pro-Israel left-wingers and the SERA campaigns and informs on environmental matters and so on.If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
When Corbyn stands down (whether it's due to a thumping electoral defeat or not), Momentum will encourage a leadership candidate with what they deem suitable views to stand for election - possibly one with harder-left views than Corbyn - and then campaign for their election. They will also continue to exist as a forum and group for supporting their political views throughout the Labour Party. Simple as that.
The idea that Momentum is some sort of elite Red Guard unit that pulls strings in the Labour Party at the whims of Corbyn and McDonnell is one of the more hilarious bits of hysteria that this thread is prone to.
FrenchCarFan said:
Big if here but...
If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
No, I think he won’t lose as badly as everyone thinks. He will likely refuse to step down. But he’s fairly old in real terms. If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
Momentum will replace him with one of their own. This will split the party. It will be the end of labour. Something more moderate and Blairite will rise and will likely win the next election.
Flumpo said:
No, I think he won’t lose as badly as everyone thinks. He will likely refuse to step down. But he’s fairly old in real terms.
Momentum will replace him with one of their own. This will split the party. It will be the end of labour. Something more moderate and Blairite will rise and will likely win the next election.
I'd be quite content with that scenario, but I think everyone will be surprised how socialist Boris will be (if he wins).Momentum will replace him with one of their own. This will split the party. It will be the end of labour. Something more moderate and Blairite will rise and will likely win the next election.
He might be so socialist that even a Blairite Labour would seem like more of the same, but with higher taxes.
FrenchCarFan said:
Big if here but...
If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
I doubt it. The problem the Labour Party now has is the extreme left has seized control of the National Executive Committee, and the leadership election rules mean voting is no longer weighted in favour of the Parliamentary Labour Party.If Corbyn loses or even still loses badly, will it also be the end of momentum?
Previously the vote was split into three electoral colleges; the general membership, the affiliated trade unions members, and the PLP, with each having a third of the share of votes, so a moderate MP who has an idea how to win elections had greater influence on the ballot. The rules were changed to one member one vote, so a raving nutbag trot from the local Constituency Labour Party has as much influence on the ballot as the Blairite-scum red-Tory b*stard MP.
The PLP has one line of defence: the candidates need the support of 15% of the PLP. Unfortunately for them, they f**ked in 2015 by nominating Corbyn, as they thought he would stimulate debate. What they failed to account for is the fact the majority of party members (the grass roots CLP members) do not consider the ability to win an election as important as sharing the same moronic hard left views that they have.
When Corbyn resigns on Friday, triggering a leadership election, the question is whether the PLP will make the same mistake. This will depend on the percentage of moderate MPs in the PLP. If the loonies have enough people to get 15% of the nominations, the Momentum candidate will be on the ballot paper, and the freaks will vote them in.
The only way they will reverse the rule change on the voting system will be to gain the approval of the membership (I assume this would be voted on at conference), but that is unlikely to happen. I cannot see the moderate members regaining control for a long time.
Ganglandboss said:
I doubt it. The problem the Labour Party now has is the extreme left has seized control of the National Executive Committee, and the leadership election rules mean voting is no longer weighted in favour of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
Previously the vote was split into three electoral colleges; the general membership, the affiliated trade unions members, and the PLP, with each having a third of the share of votes, so a moderate MP who has an idea how to win elections had greater influence on the ballot. The rules were changed to one member one vote, so a raving nutbag trot from the local Constituency Labour Party has as much influence on the ballot as the Blairite-scum red-Tory b*stard MP.
The PLP has one line of defence: the candidates need the support of 15% of the PLP. Unfortunately for them, they f**ked in 2015 by nominating Corbyn, as they thought he would stimulate debate. What they failed to account for is the fact the majority of party members (the grass roots CLP members) do not consider the ability to win an election as important as sharing the same moronic hard left views that they have.
When Corbyn resigns on Friday, triggering a leadership election, the question is whether the PLP will make the same mistake. This will depend on the percentage of moderate MPs in the PLP. If the loonies have enough people to get 15% of the nominations, the Momentum candidate will be on the ballot paper, and the freaks will vote them in.
The only way they will reverse the rule change on the voting system will be to gain the approval of the membership (I assume this would be voted on at conference), but that is unlikely to happen. I cannot see the moderate members regaining controlfor a long time ever.
Previously the vote was split into three electoral colleges; the general membership, the affiliated trade unions members, and the PLP, with each having a third of the share of votes, so a moderate MP who has an idea how to win elections had greater influence on the ballot. The rules were changed to one member one vote, so a raving nutbag trot from the local Constituency Labour Party has as much influence on the ballot as the Blairite-scum red-Tory b*stard MP.
The PLP has one line of defence: the candidates need the support of 15% of the PLP. Unfortunately for them, they f**ked in 2015 by nominating Corbyn, as they thought he would stimulate debate. What they failed to account for is the fact the majority of party members (the grass roots CLP members) do not consider the ability to win an election as important as sharing the same moronic hard left views that they have.
When Corbyn resigns on Friday, triggering a leadership election, the question is whether the PLP will make the same mistake. This will depend on the percentage of moderate MPs in the PLP. If the loonies have enough people to get 15% of the nominations, the Momentum candidate will be on the ballot paper, and the freaks will vote them in.
The only way they will reverse the rule change on the voting system will be to gain the approval of the membership (I assume this would be voted on at conference), but that is unlikely to happen. I cannot see the moderate members regaining control
The only solution is a new party, and the problem is then funding the new party.
We are f
ked, because, eventually, the public will become bored of the Tories and will want a change. The only alternative will be a Momentum-lead Labour party.pingu393 said:
The only solution is a new party, and the problem is then funding the new party.
I wouldn't be so sure. The unions will soon tire of being in opposition. FiL was a T&G convener for 30 years, even he's not voting for Corbyn and says non of his Union pals are either; they remember the disaster that was Militant. Interesting times. You need your man in number 10 to get your funding paid back! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7473683/...Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 11th December 04:15
2xChevrons said:
Of course not. Momentum isn't Corbyn's personal bodyguard or anything like that. It's a Labour-affiliated political organisation to promote and campaign for socialist politics within the Labour Party, just as Progess does the same for 'Blairite' politics, the Fabians campaign for parliamentary social democracy, Labour CND brings together people focussed on nuclear disarmament, the JLM is a group of pro-Israel left-wingers and the SERA campaigns and informs on environmental matters and so on.
When Corbyn stands down (whether it's due to a thumping electoral defeat or not), Momentum will encourage a leadership candidate with what they deem suitable views to stand for election - possibly one with harder-left views than Corbyn - and then campaign for their election. They will also continue to exist as a forum and group for supporting their political views throughout the Labour Party. Simple as that.
The idea that Momentum is some sort of elite Red Guard unit that pulls strings in the Labour Party at the whims of Corbyn and McDonnell is one of the more hilarious bits of hysteria that this thread is prone to.
Thanks for the clarification Seamus.When Corbyn stands down (whether it's due to a thumping electoral defeat or not), Momentum will encourage a leadership candidate with what they deem suitable views to stand for election - possibly one with harder-left views than Corbyn - and then campaign for their election. They will also continue to exist as a forum and group for supporting their political views throughout the Labour Party. Simple as that.
The idea that Momentum is some sort of elite Red Guard unit that pulls strings in the Labour Party at the whims of Corbyn and McDonnell is one of the more hilarious bits of hysteria that this thread is prone to.
One thing this election has done is made me think for the first time about anti-Semitism in this country. I'm non-Jewish and from rural East Anglia. Anti-Semitism is something I vaguely associated with pre-war East London, Mosley etc, and the occasional National Front retard daubing a swastika on a synagogue. I have now had my eyes opened to how prevalent it still is, how it cloaks itself in a wafer-thin disguise and how politicians are still tapping into centuries-old prejudices and pushing voters' anti-Semitic buttons. We shouldn't be seeing this kind of behaviour in a supposedly tolerant, modern country that prides itself on cultural diversity. This is 2019, not 1519.
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